Every so often, my mind will cough up some obscure reference for whatever reason.  Today's obscure reference is Robespierre, a key figure from the French Revolution known for the Reign of Terror, a series of brutal executions of figures deemed enemies of the revolution designed to purge France of all of the negative influences that necessitated the revolution in the first place.  I know the last thing you wanted to read about here is the French Revolution, but bear with me.

The Jaguars have triggered this obscure reference.

Though I knew it was a possibility, reports from CBSSports and other sources indicate Jaguars Pro Bowl CB A.J. Bouye, a key contributor to the 2017 defense that took the team to the cusp of the Super Bowl in the team's first winning season in a decade, will be one of the veteran cuts this offseason in the team's efforts to clear cap space.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-f...contracts/

So why the association with the Reign of Terror? 

While on the most basic level, I certainly don't equate the killing of scores of human beings in political upheaval to roster moves, within the more civilized context of the NFL world, the roster upheaval/purge is equally as jarring as the French Revolution was to world history. 

Below is a simple table showing the starters and key contributors to the 2017 defense that took us to the playoffs and their status as of 2020.

2017 starter/contributor-------------------------2020 Status

Yannick Ngakoue--------------------------------- ???

Dante Fowler--------------------------------------Traded to Rams in 2018.  Scheduled to be a FA

Calais Campbell-----------------------------------???

Malik Jackson-------------------------------------Cut in 2019

Marcell Dareus------------------------------------Likely to be cut in 2020

Telvin Smith---------------------------------------Went on a "sabbatical" last year.  Status unknown

Paul Pozluszny------------------------------------Retired after 2017 season

Myles Jack-----------------------------------------Currently on roster.  Signed 4 year contract extension last year.

Jalen Ramsey------------------------------------Traded in 2019 to the Rams

A.J. Bouye---------------------------------------Likely to be cut this year

Barry Church-----------------------------------Cut in 2018

Tashaun Gipson-------------------------------Cut in 2019

Aaron Colvin--------------------------------------Left as UFA in 2018

So out of fourteen starters and contributors to that 2017 defense, only ONE (1) is guaranteed to be here in 2020-Jack.  Two more-Yannick Ngakoue and Calais Campbell-are uncertain.  Ngakoue seems to have hard feelings about the team not signing him when they had the chance last year.  The team may franchise him this year, whichcould make matters worse.  He could end up being traded if there is too much acrimony as a result.  Calais Campbell has been making the public case that he deserves his contract from the Jaguars, which means at the very least, he thinks his release for cap considerations may be a possibility. 

Of the players that left, only ONE-Aaron Colvin, has been replaced by a player of equal or better ability in Hayden.  While Harrison shows promise, he has not reached the level Barry Church played in 2017.

You want to know why the defense collapsed so dramatically last year?  That's why.

Though the defense was the strength of the team, the offense wasn't spared, either.  Notable offensive departures from the same timeframe include

Allen Robinson
Allen Hurms
Jermey Parnell
Blake Bortles
T.J. Yeldon

It's not as if guys like Yeldon and Bortles were must keeps.  But I submit part of this franchise's problem is that there are rarely any talented and experienced veterans to help bridge the gap and help mentor younger players.  Teams like the Steelers and Patriots undoubtedly have free agency losses.  But they keep enough of their players to have some semblance of continuity, and they are able to replace the guys they lose, either by drafting and developing talent or signing comparable level free agents.  The Patriots went from Ty Law to Asante Samuel to Darelle Revis to Aqib Talib to Stephon Gilmore at CB.  At LT, they went from Matt Light to Nate Solder to Trent Brown.  That's three LTs in about an 18 year period. They managed to go from Troy Brown to Wes Welker to Julian Edelman at the slot.  Three slot WRs in the same time frame. 

The Steelers are not known for being big spenders, but they spent enough to keep the guys they wanted to keep longer than three year increments.  How long were guys like Bettis, Hines Ward, Jeff Hartings, Heath Miller, and Troy Polamalu on their roster?  Yes, they lost guys like Santonio Holmes and eventually Hines Ward, but they drafted and developed guys like Antonio Brown.

Seattle, the team to which the Jaguars were most often compared, managed to keep the nucleus Super Bowl defense together longer than we did.  Earl Thomas was in Seattle between 2010 until last year.  That's nine years.  Kam Chancellor was there for eight.  Richard Sherman was there seven years.  KJ Wright and Barry Wagner were together on that defense.  From the same defense, they kept Barry Wagner and KJ Wright together for eight seasons. In 2013, they added DE Michael Bennett for another five seasons.

How long were the Ravens a defensive kingdom with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata?  The triumvirate of Lewis Reed and Suggs played together from 2004 until 2012.  Haloti Ngata joined them in 2006.

I know what you're thinking.  These teams all had better QBs.  That is true, but does not provide a full account of the disparity.  First off, it isn't all about the QBs.  When Brady missed virtually the entire season after suffering a torn ACL circa 2008, the Patriots still finished 11-5.  Last year, Ben Roethlisberger missed the entire season, and the Steelers dealt with the losses of Antonio Brown and Leveon Bell, and still managed to finish 8-8.  Steelers fans thought that season a disaster.  We would see that as vast improvement.  Besides, with star QBs typically mean star salaries, which means less money to pay other players.  The Jaguars foolishly signed Bortles to the extension, and then signed Foles to a middle of the road deal last year, in deals that still paled in comparison to the salaries Brady and Big Ben earned.

At the end of the day I fully understand that in the free agency era, roster turnver is inevitable.  Players get injured.  Players age.  players retire.  Players leave for free agency.  But there is NO SENSIBLE REASON a defense as young and as talented as ours was in 2017 should have a functional shelf life of three seasons.  There is no reason a defense that talented should have to be completely rebuilt within that time as this one has to be.

Reign of Terror, indeed!

Those teams you listed above not only had better QB's. But they also had a tight knit front office from the personnel department through the coaching staff. That's really the issue here in Jacksonville. It's a systemic issue. If the brain doesn't function. The body cannot function. Kill the brain. Kill the body. 

This team has an out of touch owner now. He's only interested in expanding his brand globally across the pond and he's only interested in gaining revenue by any means outside of just producing a winning product on the football field. Because every decision he's made since he's been an owner in that regard has led you to posting this topic. 

It's nothing a lot of us on here didn't already see coming or didn't expect. I knew the defense was going to struggle in 2019 for all of those reasons you cited above. Injuries didn't help. But you can't overhaul an entire squad on your football team and expect it to pick up where you left off. Unless of course, you're a well ran team from top down. 

This team doesn't know how to build through the draft like the rest of the best teams do in the NFL. They've created a culture of mediocrity here dating back to Gus Bradley. And by holding onto Bradley's left overs like Todd Wash and Doug Marrone you've allowed that culture to continue to breed it's way through your roster. 

I know everyone falls back on 2017. I don't. That was a random one off that this team is always good for. They did it in 2005. They did it in 2007. They did it in 2017. Every once in a while they'll catch a break with their schedule, as they did in 2017, and they'll host or visit a slew of teams with sub par QB play and really bad situations across the board for some of their opponents. 

If you want a winner? You have to build through the draft. You have to create a system that adapts and doesn't break too far away from it's root core of philosophies and identity. Khan lacks the chops so far. And I don't care if this team stays here or moves across the pond for good and digs its bloody roots into London. 

His inability to properly run an NFL Franchise where it matters the most will slowly but surely showcase itself in a European market where Soccer is king. And the NFL will yet again have another failed venture with this team over there. Unless he turns it around this year and starts winning. That's all that matters at the end of the day. 2017's play-off run gave him the 14th highest count in capacity in the NFL in 2018. 

He's only lying to himself and to these fans who have kept this turd a float along the St. John's River long enough. We really are 2nd to only Cleveland when it comes to sustained [BLEEP] stain performances and rosters in the NFL. That all starts with Ownership. . .

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I don’t know, but boy am I glad we can have this level of intellectualism on this board

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I make essentially this point all the time. Trying to build through defense can get you a championship by shooting the moon but it's just not sustainable. Players get old, injured, expensive, regress, etc. Nobody remembers the 88 Bears, 02 Ravens, 04 Bucs, etc. The Broncos finished last in their division two years after winning the super bowl a few years ago. The recent Seahawks are the closest a team has done to sustained excellence through defense, but even they had a ton of turnover they were just fantastic at drafting and developing replacements. And obviously getting Russell Wilson has kept them competitive since.

It's especially true in our case since the dominant 2017 defense was largely built with trades/FA. 9 of the 14 players you listed as key contributors were not drafted by us. It was inevitable that we would lose a lot of pieces and Dave's drafting and Marrone/Wash's developing has simply been far too poor to sustain it.

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You can't build through the draft with bad coaches anymore than you can serve a great meal with a bad chef. That's why free agency is like Uber Eats.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I hope they find a way to keep AJ. If not then you can put CB right up there with other top priorities come draft time.

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Bullseye! Great to hear from you man

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I hope they find a way to keep AJ. If not then you can put CB right up there with other top priorities come draft time.

Need 2 starting corners if they cut Bouye.

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No Fun

That is what happens when you build with high priced free agents. You get a mirage that is not sustainable. Shame on you Dave Caldwell, you should have known better.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

That is what happens when you build with high priced free agents. You get a mirage that is not sustainable. Shame on you Dave Caldwell, you should have known better.

Lol, between DC and TC which had the history of cap destroying free agency moves?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That is what happens when you build with high priced free agents. You get a mirage that is not sustainable. Shame on you Dave Caldwell, you should have known better.

I don't even see how this is an issue, we were supposed to make sure we locked down Yan, Ramsey and Jack for sure. We locked down 1 of the 3, there should be no reason for us not to be able to keep atleast  Bouye, Campbell and Yan we only have 1 big contract which is Foles right?

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Let them eat cake!

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I don't know if yall remember this and I normally don't like to add conspiracies but you gotta question it.https://youtu.be/MlkM0V9ewd8

Also Ramsey was the heart of the team overall
https://youtu.be/auA-koYrNJo

This is why I don't miss Gipson at all. That Amendola TD wow, if he had play that like a decent player he could have intercepted that, he was just like waiting, not really knowing what to do, freaking awful.

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That is what happens when you build with high priced free agents. You get a mirage that is not sustainable. Shame on you Dave Caldwell, you should have known better.

Lol, between DC and TC which had the history of cap destroying free agency moves?

Prior to TCs return, Caldwell had the cap in great shape, and the product on the field was circling the drain because of multiple failed or at best mediocre high draft picks.  TC arrived, opened up Shad's wallet and started doing what he did the last time he was here, wrecking our cap situation, but producing a winning team in year 1.  Unfortunately, as has already been pointed out multiple ties, when you build through free agency you're going to pay the cost very quickly as you'll overpay for talent that may never reciprocate with a level of production equal to what they're getting paid for past production.  That's just the way free agency works.

So, we were a disaster waiting to happen with lousy drafting early, and then buying free agents to plug holes to address the lousy drafting.  What we saw happen over the past 2 seasons really wasn't unexpected, although we all hoped that the team would avoid the inury bug as they did in 2017 and get at least one more run out of the free agents.  Instead, the wheels started coming off in 2018, and the implosion completed last season with the team losing so badly, they set a record for sucking.

The only way to fix this is to do it through the draft.  The problem is, it's not going to be an easy or quick fix.  So, saying goodbye to players who have been major contributors to past success for the team is required in order to turn this team around.  The bigger problem here is that you're still basically letting the guys that put us in this mess try to dig the franchise out of this hole.  Khan decided it should all fall on Coughlin, opting to keep Caldwell and Marrone in place.  The definition of insanity applies here.  Honestly, as competitive as we've been told repeatedly Khan is, this made zero sense.  It was time to blow up the front office from the scouts to the GM to the coaching staff.  It was time to go in a completely different direction while we were trying to clean up the mess with the cap and the roster left by Caldwell and Coughlin.  If someone can provide me with a coherent explanation as to why that didn't happen this year, I'd be happy to hear it.  While mass firings aren't an effective way to run an NFL franchise, sometimes it's necessary if you want to completely change direction and rebuild.  

It will be interesting to see just how bad this team sucks this year.  The draft can provide a few fixes, but not enough to make them competitive.  The fans are going to support another year of last place finishes?  I know I'll renew my seats, but I'm fairly confident I'll have a LOT of elbow room for the 2020 season.  Fortunately, we'll only have to suffer through 6 home games thanks to back-to-back home games in London.  Based on how bad the team is expected to be next year, they may split the home season completely in 2021 once they get a gander at the season ticket sales in Jax.

At some point, this team either has to produce on the field.  This fan base deserves it.  They could have gone a long way toward instilling some level of hope among the fans by hiring a legitimate GM and head coach pairing this season.  It's inevitable it has to happen, but our owner is displaying the level of patience that assures we are basement dwellers for at least a couple of years as he builds a winner for London. At the end of the day, I think our Robespierre may be the Jacksonville fan base.

Bullseye, it's great to see you back on the board. Thought provoking posts are few and far between when you're not around.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Updates: Dareus option declined (no big shock]. Bouye rumored to be traded for a 4th round pick.

If true we will have 2 1st rounders, two 4th rounders and two 6th rounders, with possible tag and trade of Yan and deal of Foles.

Even without the possible trades of Yan and Foles, this will be one of the biggest in terms of numbers of picks in team history.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Updates: Dareus option declined (no big shock].  Bouye rumored to be traded for a 4th round pick.

If true we will have 2 1st rounders, two 4th rounders and two 6th rounders, with possible tag and trade of Yan and deal of Foles.

Even without the possible trades of Yan and Foles, this will be one of the biggest in terms of numbers of picks in team history.

Yep. All in order to back fill positions they were already set at and make up for their piss poor management and handling by a new front office!. . . oh wait. Nope. My bad. Same [BLEEP] [BLEEP] holes in the office making these decisions. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Updates: Dareus option declined (no big shock].  Bouye rumored to be traded for a 4th round pick.

If true we will have 2 1st rounders, two 4th rounders and two 6th rounders, with possible tag and trade of Yan and deal of Foles.

Even without the possible trades of Yan and Foles, this will be one of the biggest in terms of numbers of picks in team history.

Yep. All in order to back fill positions they were already set at and make up for their piss poor management and handling by a new front office!. . . oh wait. Nope. My bad. Same [BLEEP] [BLEEP] holes in the office making these decisions. 

As I said in a different thread, this is probably the lowest I have felt as a Jaguars fan.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Yep. All in order to back fill positions they were already set at and make up for their piss poor management and handling by a new front office!. . . oh wait. Nope. My bad. Same [BLEEP] [BLEEP] holes in the office making these decisions. 

As I said in a different thread, this is probably the lowest I have felt as a Jaguars fan.

likewise, Bullseye.

The apathy is the only thing that keeps it from hurting.

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Updates: Dareus option declined (no big shock].  Bouye rumored to be traded for a 4th round pick.

If true we will have 2 1st rounders, two 4th rounders and two 6th rounders, with possible tag and trade of Yan and deal of Foles.

Even without the possible trades of Yan and Foles, this will be one of the biggest in terms of numbers of picks in team history.

Lots of ammo to move up to #2 and take Josh Jones, OT, Houston.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Updates: Dareus option declined (no big shock].  Bouye rumored to be traded for a 4th round pick.

If true we will have 2 1st rounders, two 4th rounders and two 6th rounders, with possible tag and trade of Yan and deal of Foles.

Even without the possible trades of Yan and Foles, this will be one of the biggest in terms of numbers of picks in team history.

Lots of ammo to move up to #2 and take Josh Jones, OT, Houston.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Below is a simple table showing the starters and key contributors to the 2017 defense that took us to the playoffs and their status as of 2020.

2017 starter/contributor-------------------------2020 Status

Yannick Ngakoue--------------------------------- ???

Dante Fowler--------------------------------------Traded to Rams in 2018.  Scheduled to be a FA

Calais Campbell-----------------------------------???

Malik Jackson-------------------------------------Cut in 2019

Marcell Dareus------------------------------------Likely to be cut in 2020

Telvin Smith---------------------------------------Went on a "sabbatical" last year.  Status unknown

Paul Pozluszny------------------------------------Retired after 2017 season

Myles Jack-----------------------------------------Currently on roster.  Signed 4 year contract extension last year.

Jalen Ramsey------------------------------------Traded in 2019 to the Rams

A.J. Bouye---------------------------------------Likely to be cut this year

Barry Church-----------------------------------Cut in 2018

Tashaun Gipson-------------------------------Cut in 2019

Aaron Colvin--------------------------------------Left as UFA in 2018

The market is up 600+ points today and you had to bring up this [BLEEP] mess to bring me back into my state of depression

Thanks a whole [BLEEP] lot.

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