I think you're missing my point.

 

There is a disparity with white and black coaches, but there is disparity in favor of black athletes in some positions. Where is your outrage there?

 

In your post, you say that white people are more unathletic, but you go on the same that black athletes are equally competent in every way. You can't have inequality in your favor but not against. My point is that there are, at the moment, positions where white people excel. On the flip-side, there are positions where black people exceed. 

 

 

 

In a sport / job / career where minorities tend to excel, I don't feel as though the RR is necessary. 

 

Since your last post (@ 10:36) addresses the point I'm trying to make, I'll use my answer to that one for this one too. Inequality works for and against both sides. I've been in locker rooms / businesses / whatever where I wasn't welcomed specifically because I was white. I was poor, and I wasn't handed anything. I worked a bunch of part-time jobs to pay for a second-rate school out-of-pocket until I got the job I wanted. I still don't make a lot of money, and I've seen people far less qualified get promoted ahead of me. Some were black, some were white. 

 

I believe that each race tends to excel in certain careers paths. It would be stupid and inaccurate to say that one is better than the other, but it would be even dumber to say that there aren't differences. I'm also not saying that one isn't capable of achieving that of the other. I just don't think we need to bump up minority candidates if we don't also bump up white minority candidates in positions where they don't excel. If your argument is for equality for everyone, then we must fight for that. I'm down for that but it doesn't seem like that's your argument. 

 

I'm not missing any point. I've already highlighted more black athletes are playing these sports and less white athletes are. Neither group is more athletic than another. Blacks simply emphasize sports more than other groups. It could be simply be because we think development of these skills will result in getting out of low-income, crime ridden environments.

 

So there are no disparities between white and black players, no one group is more athletically competent than another. There simply isn't enough white players! 

 

I also said the white QBs who do play are generally not as athletic. First you need to understand there are few white players to begin with. The pool of athletically gifted white players is already small, so when I say most white QBs are unathletic I don't think I am saying anything that isn't true. There simply aren't many. Manning, Brady, Flacco, Schuab, Ryan, Rivers, etc etc these guys are some of the best passers in the league but they are not athletic. Why are they such great passers? Simply put, throughout their career they had to be. They didn't have the ability to run around, scramble etc etc. They had to focus development on becoming a fundamentally sound, traditional drop back passers. Vick is probably a great example of someone who had freak talent but just never developed into an elite passer. Why? Because he able to get by in highschool and college on sheer talent. He never developed the mental game, the ability to go through progressions, read defenses etc etc. 

 

Again for players it is a numbers game.

 

Large pool of players = greater likelihood of more talented, athletically gifted players.

Smaller pool of players = less likelihood of more talented, athletically gifted players.

Less athletically gifted players at QB = more time refining the critical aspects of the game.

---------------

 

Coaching is different. Disparities are present because of lack of opportunities not because of lack of numbers. 

---

In your opinion.

 

You've spun it both ways, each a different way depending on what suits your agenda.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

In the business world, people who are incompetent get promoted to lead positions all the time over people who are more deserving.  It would be pretty hard to determine which is a case of racism and which is simply a bad decision.  I work in IT and work with people of all kinds of different races.  I find we're all pretty similar.  With every race of person there are good workers and bad workers.

---

In the business world, people who are incompetent get promoted to lead positions all the time over people who are more deserving. It would be pretty hard to determine which is a case of racism and which is simply a bad decision. I work in IT and work with people of all kinds of different races. I find we're all pretty similar. With every race of person there are good workers and bad workers.

Would you have said the same thing 30-40 years ago? You are suggesting based on your own experiences, that racial biases are nonexistent? I think you're confused.

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Would you have said the same thing 30-40 years ago? You are suggesting based on your own experiences, that racial biases are nonexistent? I think you're confused.

I'm not sure if you noticed...but it's not 30-40 years ago anymore. You keep holding on so tightly to the past, you'll never get any enjoyment out of the present.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Would you have said the same thing 30-40 years ago? You are suggesting based on your own experiences, that racial biases are nonexistent? I think you're confused.

 

I said no such thing.  My point is that people of all races are often bypassed for jobs or promotions for less competent people.  That by itself doesn't prove that the person who made the decision is biased, it just proves that they make poor decisions.

 

We all look at the world through our own bias and that bias of course its based on our own experiences.  If you've experience racial bias in the past, that's unfortunate. 

 

I realize that statistics show a trend of racial bias.  That's unfortunate.  That, however, does not mean its happening in every situation.

---

Regardless, hiding behind such excuses is not among the traits of successful people...

 

http://ed.ted.com/lessons/richard-st-joh...ful-people

 

4:44 mark to skip the intro story.

 

There's no doubt Wilson has these traits and is dedicated to continuing to build on them.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I'm not missing any point. I've already highlighted more black athletes are playing these sports and less white athletes are. Neither group is more athletic than another. Blacks simply emphasize sports more than other groups. It could be simply be because we think development of these skills will result in getting out of low-income, crime ridden environments.

 

So there are no disparities between white and black players, no one group is more athletically competent than another. There simply isn't enough white players! 

 

I also said the white QBs who do play are generally not as athletic. First you need to understand there are few white players to begin with. The pool of athletically gifted white players is already small, so when I say most white QBs are unathletic I don't think I am saying anything that isn't true. There simply aren't many. Manning, Brady, Flacco, Schuab, Ryan, Rivers, etc etc these guys are some of the best passers in the league but they are not athletic. Why are they such great passers? Simply put, throughout their career they had to be. They didn't have the ability to run around, scramble etc etc. They had to focus development on becoming a fundamentally sound, traditional drop back passers. Vick is probably a great example of someone who had freak talent but just never developed into an elite passer. Why? Because he able to get by in highschool and college on sheer talent. He never developed the mental game, the ability to go through progressions, read defenses etc etc. 

 

Again for players it is a numbers game.

 

Large pool of players = greater likelihood of more talented, athletically gifted players.

Smaller pool of players = less likelihood of more talented, athletically gifted players.

Less athletically gifted players at QB = more time refining the critical aspects of the game.

---------------

 

Coaching is different. Disparities are present because of lack of opportunities not because of lack of numbers. 

 

I wonder how you reconcile the fact that over 70% of all collegiate athletes are white with your statement that there aren't enough white athletes? Larger pool means more talented players, right? Even if we just take D1, whites are still over 60% of the athletes. So, if as you postulate, there are no differences in the capabilities of the races, then why do we see such a huge reversal when we move up to the professional level where over 60% of the NFL players and 80% of the NBA players are black while MLB has more than 25% Latino but only 8% black (still a full 40% minority)?

 

Further, with so very few professional roster spots and even fewer coaching and management positions (less than 20k in aggregate), why aren't we concerned by the OVER-representation of minorities in these positions? 

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Link here.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...-1.1600050

 

http://www.afro.com/sections/church/stor...ryid=81355

Didn't read the articles but it should also be noted that he is the first black QB to win a Superbowl after starting a full-season. This isn't a knock against Doug Williams. But, Doug only started two games during the regular season that year in 87' and he went 0-2. He still put up crazy numbers in that SB win though. You can't take that away from him.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

In a sport / job / career where minorities tend to excel, I don't feel as though the RR is necessary. 

 

Since your last post (@ 10:36) addresses the point I'm trying to make, I'll use my answer to that one for this one too. Inequality works for and against both sides. I've been in locker rooms / businesses / whatever where I wasn't welcomed specifically because I was white. I was poor, and I wasn't handed anything. I worked a bunch of part-time jobs to pay for a second-rate school out-of-pocket until I got the job I wanted. I still don't make a lot of money, and I've seen people far less qualified get promoted ahead of me. Some were black, some were white. 

 

I believe that each race tends to excel in certain careers paths. It would be stupid and inaccurate to say that one is better than the other, but it would be even dumber to say that there aren't differences. I'm also not saying that one isn't capable of achieving that of the other. I just don't think we need to bump up minority candidates if we don't also bump up white minority candidates in positions where they don't excel. If your argument is for equality for everyone, then we must fight for that. I'm down for that but it doesn't seem like that's your argument. 

 

In a sport where Minorities (not just African Americans) are SEVERELY underrepresented in Head Coaching and Ownership, IMO the RR if strengthened can properly recognize those qualified individuals who without the rule would just be simply over looked. 

 

In regards to your last paragraph, the last time I could remember, I dont think people were passing up qualified white candidates because of their race, or their perceived ability to have problems thinking on the job. I also want to ask you, what do you think im making my argument for? 

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

In a sport where Minorities (not just African Americans) are SEVERELY underrepresented in Head Coaching and Ownership, IMO the RR if strengthened can properly recognize those qualified individuals who without the rule would just be simply over looked. 

 

In regards to your last paragraph, the last time I could remember, I dont think people were passing up qualified white candidates because of their race, or their perceived ability to have problems thinking on the job. I also want to ask you, what do you think im making my argument for?

If we base the participation off of the census we should have 3 or 4 black head coaches at any given time. Im not sure how you get "severely" from the current real numbers.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

If we base the participation off of the census we should have 3 or 4 black head coaches at any given time. Im not sure how you get "severely" from the current real numbers.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So every job out there should only have 13% blacks. Thanks for telling us how you really feel.

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That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So every job out there should only have 13% blacks. Thanks for telling us how you really feel.

You look for racism even when it's not there, don't you?

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So every job out there should only have 13% blacks. Thanks for telling us how you really feel.

 

I feel that the best person ought to get the job and I'm certain that most professional sports owners feel the same way. But for people with your agenda, if half the jobs aren't given to a minority then it's not "fair." Even though the math defies your perception. If there aren't enough whites to have more great athletes (your "larger pool" position) then why can it not be that there simply aren't enough blacks to have more great coaches? Especially when the second position is more logical when black only comprise 13% of the total population? For you the answer must be "because racism." Do qualified candidates get passed over? Absolutely, but when you only have 20k positions and a population of 300 million that isn't unfair, it reality. And the truth is that more qualified white candidates get passed over than qualified black candidates get passed over. That isn't racism, it's simple scope.

 

So, do you feel that the over-large representation of blacks in basketball is a product of racism or something else? Are you truly saying that an over-representation of blacks in a position is due to their superiority while an over-representation of whites in a similar position is due to racism?

 

My position is that the occupations we are discussing are so difficult to achieve that any type of racial disparity is swallowed whole by the elite nature of the talent pool required just for consideration much less actual selection.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

If we base the participation off of the census we should have 3 or 4 black head coaches at any given time. Im not sure how you get "severely" from the current real numbers.

Im not "basing" anything off of census information.

 

Im formulating my opinion based off the the number of minority candidates involved with (in a official position) the NFL in a non-head coaching, ownership capacity.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Im not "basing" anything off of census information.

 

Im formulating my opinion based off the the number of minority candidates involved with (in a official position) the NFL in a non-head coaching, ownership capacity.

 

Right, so it's just based on your feelings then, not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality. Especially in the area of ownership. because there are even fewer qualified candidates for that penultimate of elite roles than there are GM, coach or player.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Right, so it's just based on your feelings then, not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality. Especially in the area of ownership. because there are even fewer qualified candidates for that penultimate of elite roles than there are GM, coach or player.

 

If you are calling someone's opinion "feelings", then yeah I guess. 

 

Qualified Minority candidates getting passed over for Head coaching, or shunned from team ownership is not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality.

 

Thanks for the clarification I guess.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

If you are calling someone's opinion "feelings", then yeah I guess. 

 

Qualified Minority candidates getting passed over for Head coaching, or shunned from team ownership is not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality.

 

Thanks for the clarification I guess.

What minority candidate that was qualified got passed over? And who has been shunned for ownership?

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

 

Qualified Minority candidates getting passed over for Head coaching, or shunned from team ownership is not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality.

 

 

Finally someone stated an actual fact.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What minority candidate that was qualified got passed over? And who has been shunned for ownership?

 

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment...21730007e0

 

http://www.phillytrib.com/commentaryarti...owner.html

 

Finally someone stated an actual fact.

 

I was questioning your fact.

 

"Qualified Minority candidates getting passed over for Head coaching, or shunned from team ownership is not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality."

 

So a qualified minority getting passed over for a HC job, or ownership does not have racial undertones?

 

Me (or my peers) being denied a top promotion at my job because of racial undertones is not grounded in any form or quantifiable reality as well?

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.