http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment...21730007e0

 

http://www.phillytrib.com/commentaryarti...owner.html

 

 

I was questioning your fact.

 

"Qualified Minority candidates getting passed over for Head coaching, or shunned from team ownership is not grounded in any form of quantifiable reality."

 

So a qualified minority getting passed over for a HC job, or ownership does not have racial undertones?

 

Me (or my peers) being denied a top promotion at my job because of racial undertones is not grounded in any form or quantifiable reality as well?

 

32 jobs in the NFL for GMs. 300 million people in America. Yeah, it has not a single thing to do with race.

 

That second one is hilarious, only one majority owner out of 122 franchises. So 99.9999999% of Americans don't own a professional franchise but it's some kind of travesty that only one is owned by a person of color? It's not a problem of color, it's a problem of scale. There aren't enough professional franchises for everyone that wants one to have one. Just ask Rush Limbaugh.

 

But that's why we don't have these kinds of conversations, no one can handle the simple truths, it always has to be some conspiracy.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/nfl-lack-of-minority-coaches/50fdeb8e2b8c2a21730007e0'>http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/nfl-lack-of-minority-coaches/50fdeb8e2b8c2a21730007e0</a>

 
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.phillytrib.com/commentaryarticles/item/1164-122-teams-one-black-major-owner.html'>http://www.phillytrib.com/commentaryarticles/item/1164-122-teams-one-black-major-owner.html</a>

Okay...so what actual candidates were passed over? Neither one of those articles state anyone who was actually passed over, the second one just states that there aren't more black owners in sports because in terms of "serious" money players there haven't been many that have shown up with enough money to be able to buy into the elite club of team owners.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

32 jobs in the NFL for GMs. 300 million people in America. Yeah, it has not a single thing to do with race.

 

That second one is hilarious, only one majority owner out of 122 franchises. So 99.9999999% of Americans don't own a professional franchise but it's some kind of travesty that only one is owned by a person of color? It's not a problem of color, it's a problem of scale. There aren't enough professional franchises for everyone that wants one to have one. Just ask Rush Limbaugh.

 

But that's why we don't have these kinds of conversations, no one can handle the simple truths, it always has to be some conspiracy.

 

So racism is a "conspiracy" now?

 

Okay...so what actual candidates were passed over? Neither one of those articles state anyone who was actually passed over, the second one just states that there aren't more black owners in sports because in terms of "serious" money players there haven't been many that have shown up with enough money to be able to buy into the elite club of team owners.

 

I dont think it would be publicly disclosed who the candidates were especially if they still wanted to remain in the league in some capacity. It would be best suited for them to remain quiet on why they know they were passed over. Remember, in today's society of racism, it is more covert. 

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

So racism is a "conspiracy" now?

 

 

 

It certainly cannot be the catch all excuse for failure that it used to be.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It certainly cannot be the catch all excuse for failure that it used to be.

 

I dont think I ever alluded to such. I am just stating it is still very prevalent in today's society.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

32 jobs in the NFL for GMs. 300 million people in America. Yeah, it has not a single thing to do with race.

 

That second one is hilarious, only one majority owner out of 122 franchises. So 99.9999999% of Americans don't own a professional franchise but it's some kind of travesty that only one is owned by a person of color? It's not a problem of color, it's a problem of scale. There aren't enough professional franchises for everyone that wants one to have one. Just ask Rush Limbaugh.

 

But that's why we don't have these kinds of conversations, no one can handle the simple truths, it always has to be some conspiracy.

 

 

Technically, there are only 31 GM positions; Jerry doubles-up in Dallas.

 

#33

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So racism is a "conspiracy" now?

 


 

I dont think it would be publicly disclosed who the candidates were especially if they still wanted to remain in the league in some capacity. It would be best suited for them to remain quiet on why they know they were passed over. Remember, in today's society of racism, it is more covert.

I'm not very familiar with coaches, so I don't know, but what black ones are out there that you think didn't get jobs but should have?

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. So every job out there should only have 13% blacks. Thanks for telling us how you really feel.

 

What you're saying is that minorities to should over-represent their portion of the population. In other words, you're OK with certain races getting the shaft because you want black coaches, GM, and owners in these positions.

 

You have a problem with qualified candidates being overlooked, right? Seems a bit hypocritical here. 

 

So racism is a "conspiracy" now?

 

 

I dont think it would be publicly disclosed who the candidates were especially if they still wanted to remain in the league in some capacity. It would be best suited for them to remain quiet on why they know they were passed over. Remember, in today's society of racism, it is more covert. 

 

This is where there's a confusion. You're labeling these situations where black candidates have been overlooked as "racism". You've yet to list a candidate to prove your example, but you continue to push the narrative that racism is prevalent in the NFL.

 

Then, you go on to define "today's society" in terms of racism where you (and likely those that agree with you) have guided the agenda to fit your personal opinion.

 

You've already told me that you haven't determined that you don't think racism exist against whites because you "don't think" they were being passed up. How can you tell me that I haven't experience something firsthand?

 

If you can't even agree that it happens for both sides, then how can we continue to debate when it's obvious you aren't open for different opinions? I judge a man on the basis of his character, work ethic, etc. etc., but you've already said that you want them to over-represent. There is no way around it; that implies you would rather pass up a more qualified person for another based on their race.

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I'm not missing any point. I've already highlighted more black athletes are playing these sports and less white athletes are. Neither group is more athletic than another. Blacks simply emphasize sports more than other groups. It could be simply be because we think development of these skills will result in getting out of low-income, crime ridden environments.

 

...

 

I also said the white QBs who do play are generally not as athletic. First you need to understand there are few white players to begin with. The pool of athletically gifted white players is already small, so when I say most white QBs are unathletic I don't think I am saying anything that isn't true. There simply aren't many. Manning, Brady, Flacco, Schuab, Ryan, Rivers, etc etc these guys are some of the best passers in the league but they are not athletic. Why are they such great passers? Simply put, throughout their career they had to be. They didn't have the ability to run around, scramble etc etc. They had to focus development on becoming a fundamentally sound, traditional drop back passers. Vick is probably a great example of someone who had freak talent but just never developed into an elite passer. Why? Because he able to get by in highschool and college on sheer talent. He never developed the mental game, the ability to go through progressions, read defenses etc etc. 

 

Again for players it is a numbers game.

 

Large pool of players = greater likelihood of more talented, athletically gifted players.

Smaller pool of players = less likelihood of more talented, athletically gifted players.

Less athletically gifted players at QB = more time refining the critical aspects of the game.

---------------

 

Coaching is different. Disparities are present because of lack of opportunities not because of lack of numbers. 

 

It would appear that you are incorrect. From the numbers that I see, white players make up the majority of college football. Where have you concluded that black players make up a "larger pool"?

 

This is football. Coaches want to win. Do you even think that the number of coaches that are willing to sacrifice a winning record so that they can keep a black person away from the QB position is even a quantifiable number? The QB spot is the most important, and I'd be willing to bet that they'd put them into those spots in a heartbeat if it helped the team. 

 

Again, you're saying that black people are more athletic. Personally, I don't care if you do believe that. The problem I have is if you believe everyone to be equal, but you use the "pros" to support your opinion while disregarding the "cons" because it doesn't fit your agenda. 

---

What you're saying is that minorities to should over-represent their portion of the population. In other words, you're OK with certain races getting the shaft because you want black coaches, GM, and owners in these positions.

 

You have a problem with qualified candidates being overlooked, right? Seems a bit hypocritical here. 

 

 

This is where there's a confusion. You're labeling these situations where black candidates have been overlooked as "racism". You've yet to list a candidate to prove your example, but you continue to push the narrative that racism is prevalent in the NFL.

 

Then, you go on to define "today's society" in terms of racism where you (and likely those that agree with you) have guided the agenda to fit your personal opinion.

 

You've already told me that you haven't determined that you don't think racism exist against whites because you "don't think" they were being passed up. How can you tell me that I haven't experience something firsthand?

 

If you can't even agree that it happens for both sides, then how can we continue to debate when it's obvious you aren't open for different opinions? I judge a man on the basis of his character, work ethic, etc. etc., but you've already said that you want them to over-represent. There is no way around it; that implies you would rather pass up a more qualified person for another based on their race.

 

I want to clarify some things.

 

1. First off, when it comes to discussing qualified candidates, I am referencing ALL minority candidates(races). I am not limiting, or prefacing my comments to just strictly African American candidates.

 

2. The reason I did not provide a list of said candidates is because there is no records of specific people. Yet there are countless articles that have been written explaining racism and the lack of diversity and the causes of it in the NFL with regards to Head coaching and ownership.

 

3. I gave you my beliefs as to why whites and blacks are being passed up for HC opportunities. If you dont remember I said "the last time I check, I didnt think the reason why Whites were being passed up were because of the color of their skin". I am not trying to dispute your experiences firsthand, and you cannot dispute my experiences firsthand either.

 

4. As I said in another thread racism is practiced by all races. I commend you on how you treat people, but as I said earlier in this thread and others, society tends to judge differently. For the record, I NEVER said I want them to be "over-represented", I just simply want minorities a chance to be represented. That is a big difference. You are making incorrect implifications. 

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

In reading parts of this thread,  the blog article that former Lions DE Lawrence Jackson wrote regarding the Lions hiring Jim Caldwell as Head Coach immediately came to mind.   While I still am not such to what extent I agree with LoJack on his opinion,  it's the type of article that leads to in-depth thinking:

 

http://lojack94.wordpress.com/2014/01/14...-big-deal/

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I didn't think a new thread was needed and maybe it was mentioned in here somewhere but has anyone else seen the NFL Featured on Russell Wilson they aired on ESPN.  I was a Wilson fan before but the kid really is pretty special.  It was a good watch if anyone hasn't seen it.

---

In reading parts of this thread,  the blog article that former Lions DE Lawrence Jackson wrote regarding the Lions hiring Jim Caldwell as Head Coach immediately came to mind.   While I still am not such to what extent I agree with LoJack on his opinion,  it's the type of article that leads to in-depth thinking:

 

http://lojack94.wordpress.com/2014/01/14...-big-deal/

 

Fascinating take. So if, as LoJack writes, black players play harder for black coaches, does that mean that (broadly speaking here) black players are racist? Is that something to be concerned about or it it a case of human nature that can't be altered? Should owners and GMs hire black coaches solely to get the most effort out of their majority-black rosters? Or could he be mistaken and Swartz is just a piece of garbage who wasn't worthy of respect no matter what his skin color? Very complicated issues.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So racism is a "conspiracy" now?

 

 

I dont think it would be publicly disclosed who the candidates were especially if they still wanted to remain in the league in some capacity. It would be best suited for them to remain quiet on why they know they were passed over. Remember, in today's society of racism, it is more covert. 

STOP THIS. COMING FROM A FELLOW BLACK MAN.

 

Stop pulling the race card. Those candidates you say were passed over because they are minorities were passed over because there was a better person for the job. THAT, is why they were passed over. NOT because they are Black, or Oriental, or whatever. There is only 32 jobs like this in the WORLD. Blacks only account for 14.1 of the USA's population. Get a damn clue. Embarrasing.

---

I think Bridgewater at 3 is better value than Mack at 3, yes.

 

<div> 
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Clown.
</div>
 
 
 

STOP THIS. COMING FROM A FELLOW BLACK MAN.

 

Stop pulling the race card. Those candidates you say were passed over because they are minorities were passed over because there was a better person for the job. THAT, is why they were passed over. NOT because they are Black, or Oriental, or whatever. There is only 32 jobs like this in the WORLD. Blacks only account for 14.1 of the USA's population. Get a damn clue. Embarrasing.

Thank you Tommy, well said.

 

Do minorities get passed over at times? I am sure, but it is not even close to the number passed over 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, etc years ago. There are also whites who get passed over now for scholarships and jobs, etc. now as well because of skin color.

 

Sadly, there will probably always be racists here and there. I don't think that will ever completely be gone (from people of all races). To acknowledge the scum who are racists empowers them. For them, any media coverage, or people talking about them, or to them is good. Good or bad publicity is good for them. Giving them something to speak about is good for them. Just have to not acknowledge them whatsoever. Same goes for anyone who constantly pulls the race card over everything. It cheapens when there is actually racism occuring.

 

My two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

---

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

STOP THIS. COMING FROM A FELLOW BLACK MAN.

 

Stop pulling the race card. Those candidates you say were passed over because they are minorities were passed over because there was a better person for the job. THAT, is why they were passed over. NOT because they are Black, or Oriental, or whatever. There is only 32 jobs like this in the WORLD. Blacks only account for 14.1 of the USA's population. Get a damn clue. Embarrasing.

 

Do you think there are equal opportunities or access to work to become the 'best' candidate? Does the brilliant coach at EWC BCU or FAMU even get a shot to get that job at USC FL GA? 

 

Look at this from wikipedia:

Saban had not intended to enter coaching until Don James, his coach at Kent State, made him a graduate assistant while Saban waited for his wife to graduate.^[13] He later served as an assistant coach at Syracuse, West Virginia, Ohio State,Navy and Michigan State in NCAA Division I-A, and with the Houston Oilers and Cleveland Browns in the National Football League.^[14] Saban is considered part of the Bill Belichick coaching tree, having worked under him in Cleveland.
 

 

So Saban, a guy who never intended to coach or attend graduate school, just lucked up? Maybe a case of who you know, not what you know right? Who would Coach Joe Schmoe at FAMU need to get in touch with to just will-nilly get a graduate assistant gig and eventually get a coaching job at a university in a major football conference? Who is going to take his coaching pedigree from FAMU seriously, even if the dude was an absolute football genius? 

---

Do you think there are equal opportunities or access to work to become the 'best' candidate? Does the brilliant coach at EWC BCU or FAMU even get a shot to get that job at USC FL GA? 

 

Look at this from wikipedia:

 

So Saban, a guy who never intended to coach or attend graduate school, just lucked up? Maybe a case of who you know, not what you know right? Who would Coach Joe Schmoe at FAMU need to get in touch with to just will-nilly get a graduate assistant gig and eventually get a coaching job at a university in a major football conference? Who is going to take his coaching pedigree from FAMU seriously, even if the dude was an absolute football genius? 

 

 

EWC, BCU and FAMU are stepping stone schools.  If a coach proves himself there I do believe he can move up in the ranks.  A coach will rarely jump from a school of that size to a premiere football school.

 

You picked an example and used Saban?  Are you serious?  One of the best coaches/recruiters in the country and you are comparing him to any school (not just a historically black school) of that size is an unfair comparison.  Do you see how many schools he was an assistant at before he even got the shot to move up to a head coach?

 

I realize there is no sense in discussing with certain people, but the cream will always rise to the top.  Whether its Kent State, FAMU, or JU.  JU's coach has been passed over for numerous offensive coordinator positions at various bigger schools.  Whats the explanation for that?

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STOP THIS. COMING FROM A FELLOW BLACK MAN.

 

Stop pulling the race card. Those candidates you say were passed over because they are minorities were passed over because there was a better person for the job. THAT, is why they were passed over. NOT because they are Black, or Oriental, or whatever. There is only 32 jobs like this in the WORLD. Blacks only account for 14.1 of the USA's population. Get a damn clue. Embarrasing.

 

You actually think im pulling the race card when the all (or the majority) of my responses in this thread has been about the ad vocation of all minorities.

 

Do yourself a favor and pay attention to post 210 the one right above yours before you post anything else.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Do you think there are equal opportunities or access to work to become the 'best' candidate? Does the brilliant coach at EWC BCU or FAMU even get a shot to get that job at USC FL GA? 

 

Look at this from wikipedia:

 

So Saban, a guy who never intended to coach or attend graduate school, just lucked up? Maybe a case of who you know, not what you know right? Who would Coach Joe Schmoe at FAMU need to get in touch with to just will-nilly get a graduate assistant gig and eventually get a coaching job at a university in a major football conference? Who is going to take his coaching pedigree from FAMU seriously, even if the dude was an absolute football genius? 

You're using this as an example? When I went to college I was dead set on becoming a college coach afterward. I got there and saw all the extra stuff that had to be done. I talked to my coaches about the time that had to be put in to be successful and I was not willing to do that. I chose a different course. That is called Life.

---

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

 

So Saban, a guy who never intended to coach or attend graduate school, just lucked up? Maybe a case of who you know, not what you know right? Who would Coach Joe Schmoe at FAMU need to get in touch with to just will-nilly get a graduate assistant gig and eventually get a coaching job at a university in a major football conference? Who is going to take his coaching pedigree from FAMU seriously, even if the dude was an absolute football genius? 

 

Being a coach in his own right, Coach Schmoe would not take a GA gig. I run an entire department at a small organization, I would not trade it to go work in the mail room at GE.

 

A better example is Charlie Strong who started from Central Arkansas as a player and 18 years later is the head coach of a Top 3 program. That's the route the vast majority of head coaches take.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato