All these BLM folks are just cannon fodder for the Hard Left political groups financing them. Scratch an activist and they bleed Red Tyranny.

You've been indoctrinated by fear propagandists if you actually believe that.

Dude, I have laid out the case for this position. It is clear far left groups are funding most of these organizations that serve as a face for change. The goal post immediately moves once they get people clamoring for the change they want. Show me an activist organization, and I can prove their affiliation to socialist groups. That last statement might be hyperbolic, but it's is true, by and large.

---

You've been indoctrinated by fear propagandists if you actually believe that.

Dude, I have laid out the case for this position. It is clear far left groups are funding most of these organizations that serve as a face for change. The goal post immediately moves once they get people clamoring for the change they want. Show me an activist organization, and I can prove their affiliation to socialist groups. That last statement might be hyperbolic, but it's is true, by and large.

Have a little more faith in the people you support and the politicians you vote for.

They can cooperate with bad guys when the bad guys have a point, but they can also stop cooperation at any time!

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You've been indoctrinated by fear propagandists if you actually believe that.

Dude, I have laid out the case for this position. It is clear far left groups are funding most of these organizations that serve as a face for change. The goal post immediately moves once they get people clamoring for the change they want. Show me an activist organization, and I can prove their affiliation to socialist groups. That last statement might be hyperbolic, but it's is true, by and large.

Cool. 

I think that's largely horse [BLEEP]. 
It's not difficult to fund a global movement for positive change in the age of 
crowdfunding when you've got millions of people emotionally fueled to fix something that's broken. 
Video footage of people being senselessly killed is very powerful stuff. 

They don't need whatever subversive funding you believe they are receiving. 

What exactly is being done with this funding (where ever it comes from) that troubles you? 

Was it this funding that moved Mayor Curry to remove these confederate monuments?

---

Would it matter? If I took the time to research it, and lay it out for you, would it make a difference?

---

Would it matter? If I took the time to research it, and lay it out for you, would it make a difference?

I'd like to see it.

---

Would it matter? If I took the time to research it, and lay it out for you, would it make a difference?

Sure. 
If you could demonstrate that there is subversive funding being funneled into what is seen as a civil rights movement - and it is being used to implement some criminal or inherently unethical agenda. 

What is it that you believe to be the goal of this funding? What do the funders hope to accomplish?

---

You've heard it ad nauseum. There is a group of wealthy influencers that believe in a globalist, socialist world. America is the largest obstacle to that vision, because it has a unique culture that is anti-authoritarian and self-interested. The soviet union broke itself trying to undo the American sense of identity and individuality.

Honestly, dude, it's a waste of time to try to write it all here, because there is SO many different rabbit holes you have to hop down to start making sense of it all. I need to talk about Marxism and the goals of the early 20th century (I could go back further even, to the inception of communist ideals in Germany and the problems they faced as they pitched this philosophy there, before being driven out of the country or underground). I need to talk about the philosophy that preceded it and dealt directly with creating revolution in industrialized countries. I need to talk about the cold war, and the US/Russian propaganda and tactics that lead to practices like disinformation and sleeper cells. I need to talk about the American schools of communist thought and how they also were driven underground before resurfacing in the 60's. I need to talk about how they came to prominence in institutions and the long term strategies pitched by their philosophers. I also need to talk about what separates them from their Russian counterparts. I need to talk about how things changed as the cold war escalated, especially the use of language, and how the term "communism" became a dirty word. Actually, I'd really need to spend a lot of time on language, as this is a primary strategy in affecting change, but it came directly out of communist thought. I need to talk about how things changed after the cold war ended. I need to talk about how the strategies are continuing to evolve and change as the left takes control of various institutions. Only once we have a shared understanding of that history can we begin to make light of what's going on. How much of this stuff have you actually studied?

The truth is that books can and have been written about this subject. I don't expect everyone to have read any of it, but it's foolish to to pretend that we are not in an ideological war. It's foolish to believe we are in a battle over any one issue. The goal is to find issues in disparate groups and bind them under a similar ideology. Muslim issues. Check. Immigration issues. Check. Black issues. Check. Union issues. Check. LGTBQ issues. Check. Environmental issues. Check. These groups have entirely different goals, but their grievances are being tied to American capitalism. When you go to the major activist websites for these groups, you will see they advocate socialist values and the underlying claim is that these issues can't be resolved in an American capitalist system. The word, comrade, is used twice on the BLM website. Tell me, how many black folks that use the word comrade? These groups are funded by wealthy backers that believe they can help achieve their vision of the world, and it's evident the connection when you start reading their mission statements.

---

You've heard it ad nauseum. There is a group of wealthy influencers that believe in a globalist, socialist world. America is the largest obstacle to that vision, because it has a unique culture that is anti-authoritarian and self-interested. The soviet union broke itself trying to undo the American sense of identity and individuality.

Honestly, dude, it's a waste of time to try to write it all here, because there is SO many different rabbit holes you have to hop down to start making sense of it all. I need to talk about Marxism and the goals of the early 20th century (I could go back further even, to the inception of communist ideals in Germany and the problems they faced as they pitched this philosophy there, before being driven out of the country or underground). I need to talk about the philosophy that preceded it and dealt directly with creating revolution in industrialized countries. I need to talk about the cold war, and the US/Russian propaganda and tactics that lead to practices like disinformation and sleeper cells. I need to talk about the American schools of communist thought and how they also were driven underground before resurfacing  in the 60's. I need to talk about how they came to prominence in institutions and the long term strategies pitched by their philosophers. I also need to talk about what separates them from their Russian counterparts. I need to talk about how things changed as the cold war escalated, especially the use of language, and how the term "communism" became a dirty word. Actually, I'd really need to spend a lot of time on language, as this is a primary strategy in affecting change, but it came directly out of communist thought. I need to talk about how things changed after the cold war ended. I need to talk about how the strategies are continuing to evolve and change as the left takes control of various institutions. Only once we have a shared understanding of that history can we begin to make light of what's going on. How much of this stuff have you actually studied?

The truth is that books can and have been written about this subject. I don't expect everyone to have read any of it, but it's foolish to to pretend that we are not in an ideological war. It's foolish to believe we are in a battle over any one issue. The goal is to find issues in disparate groups and bind them under a similar ideology. Muslim issues. Check. Immigration issues. Check. Black issues. Check. Union issues. Check. LGTBQ issues. Check. Environmental issues. Check. These groups have entirely different goals, but their grievances are being tied to American capitalism. When you go to the major activist websites for these groups, you will see they advocate socialist values and the underlying claim is that these issues can't be resolved in an American capitalist system. The word, comrade, is used twice on the BLM website. Tell me, how many black folks that use the word comrade? These groups are funded by wealthy backers that believe they can help achieve their vision of the world, and it's evident the connection when you start reading their mission statements.

So no evidence of subversive funding, and no answer to what the actual goal of that funding may be. 

I'm just supposed to believe there is an evil force at work manipulating activists to do something bad, but we're not sure what exactly, and we know this because you read some books. 

OK.  Thanks for nothing, I guess. 

Also - comrade isn't a bad word. You are merely associating it to support your narrative. 
While we're on that - have you read the "what we believe statement" on the BLM website? 
Aside from the gender thing that is very divisive these days, it's not very controversial at all IMO. And it does not in any way lead me to believe it was written by wealthy backers with an evil mission. 

It's also very important to note that many of the millions of people walking around carrying "Black Lives Matter" banners at these protests have likely never even seen that website or associate themselves in any way with it. They merely support the idea of ending injustices against people of color by police.

---

Here you go, this is an excellent write up on the ideology under girding #BLM. It's not some BLT conspiracy theory, it's very straightforward list of people, organizations, and citations about the money spent for the purpose of razing and rebuilding America. Written by a former White House economist it's also from 4 years ago, so it's not colored by the most current events.

https://www.aim.org/special-report/reds-...es-matter/

Enjoy!

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Wait.... AIM is still around?!

---

Wait.... AIM is still around?!

So ummm, not bothering to read my post?

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Wait.... AIM is still around?!

So ummm, not bothering to read my post?

Nah couldn’t care less.

However the AIM thing has me blown right now.

Carry on.

---

Here you go, this is an excellent write up on the ideology under girding #BLM. It's not some BLT conspiracy theory, it's very straightforward list of people, organizations, and citations about the money spent for the purpose of razing and rebuilding America. Written by a former White House economist it's also from 4 years ago, so it's not colored by the most current events.

https://www.aim.org/special-report/reds-...es-matter/

Enjoy!

I'm going to read the whole thing, but I just have to laughingly point out that the very first paragraph contains a giant causation fail and a bunch of extreme opinion/speculation.

 Its (blm) agitation has provoked police killings and other violence, lawlessness and unrest in minority communities throughout the U.S. If allowed to continue, that agitation could devolve into anarchy and civil war. The BLM crowd appears to be spoiling for just such an outcome.

I'm supposed to take this seriously?  ^

edit: 
OK. I read the whole thing.  
Now I see why folks are so fearful of this movement.  You're allowing yourself to be scared into believing it's going to turn our nation to widespread socialism and some implied evil. 

Well, socialist elements are already rampant within our governments federal and local. And they will likely continue to pervade even more rather than recede over the coming decades.
 That will happen based on the success of such elements in other nations as models.
 Ford, Rockefeller and Soros' monetary contributions to a dozen different "progressive" organizations that this writer attempts to loosely connect to BLM may help such a shift over time. But it will ultimately be the will of the people to improve the structure of their government and communities that leads the charge at the voting booth to adopt more socialist leaning measures.

---

Here you go, this is an excellent write up on the ideology under girding #BLM. It's not some BLT conspiracy theory, it's very straightforward list of people, organizations, and citations about the money spent for the purpose of razing and rebuilding America. Written by a former White House economist it's also from 4 years ago, so it's not colored by the most current events.

https://www.aim.org/special-report/reds-...es-matter/

Enjoy!

I'm going to read the whole thing, but I just have to laughingly point out that the very first paragraph contains a giant causation fail and a bunch of extreme opinion/speculation.

 Its (blm) agitation has provoked police killings and other violence, lawlessness and unrest in minority communities throughout the U.S. If allowed to continue, that agitation could devolve into anarchy and civil war. The BLM crowd appears to be spoiling for just such an outcome.

I'm supposed to take this seriously?  ^

As we look to Seattle where we've got ummmm, anarchy and civil war? Yeah, you probably should start taking it a smidge seriously. But hey, you asked for information and I've provided it in some pretty deep detail.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You've heard it ad nauseum. There is a group of wealthy influencers that believe in a globalist, socialist world. America is the largest obstacle to that vision, because it has a unique culture that is anti-authoritarian and self-interested. The soviet union broke itself trying to undo the American sense of identity and individuality.

Honestly, dude, it's a waste of time to try to write it all here, because there is SO many different rabbit holes you have to hop down to start making sense of it all. I need to talk about Marxism and the goals of the early 20th century (I could go back further even, to the inception of communist ideals in Germany and the problems they faced as they pitched this philosophy there, before being driven out of the country or underground). I need to talk about the philosophy that preceded it and dealt directly with creating revolution in industrialized countries. I need to talk about the cold war, and the US/Russian propaganda and tactics that lead to practices like disinformation and sleeper cells. I need to talk about the American schools of communist thought and how they also were driven underground before resurfacing  in the 60's. I need to talk about how they came to prominence in institutions and the long term strategies pitched by their philosophers. I also need to talk about what separates them from their Russian counterparts. I need to talk about how things changed as the cold war escalated, especially the use of language, and how the term "communism" became a dirty word. Actually, I'd really need to spend a lot of time on language, as this is a primary strategy in affecting change, but it came directly out of communist thought. I need to talk about how things changed after the cold war ended. I need to talk about how the strategies are continuing to evolve and change as the left takes control of various institutions. Only once we have a shared understanding of that history can we begin to make light of what's going on. How much of this stuff have you actually studied?

The truth is that books can and have been written about this subject. I don't expect everyone to have read any of it, but it's foolish to to pretend that we are not in an ideological war. It's foolish to believe we are in a battle over any one issue. The goal is to find issues in disparate groups and bind them under a similar ideology. Muslim issues. Check. Immigration issues. Check. Black issues. Check. Union issues. Check. LGTBQ issues. Check. Environmental issues. Check. These groups have entirely different goals, but their grievances are being tied to American capitalism. When you go to the major activist websites for these groups, you will see they advocate socialist values and the underlying claim is that these issues can't be resolved in an American capitalist system. The word, comrade, is used twice on the BLM website. Tell me, how many black folks that use the word comrade? These groups are funded by wealthy backers that believe they can help achieve their vision of the world, and it's evident the connection when you start reading their mission statements.

So no evidence of subversive funding, and no answer to what the actual goal of that funding may be. 

I'm just supposed to believe there is an evil force at work manipulating activists to do something bad, but we're not sure what exactly, and we know this because you read some books. 

OK.  Thanks for nothing, I guess. 

Also - comrade isn't a bad word. You are merely associating it to support your narrative. 
While we're on that - have you read the "what we believe statement" on the BLM website? 
Aside from the gender thing that is very divisive these days, it's not very controversial at all IMO. And it does not in any way lead me to believe it was written by wealthy backers with an evil mission. 

It's also very important to note that many of the millions of people walking around carrying "Black Lives Matter" banners at these protests have likely never even seen that website or associate themselves in any way with it. They merely support the idea of ending injustices against people of color by police.

I didn't say I couldn't provide it. I just said it would take too much time. Also, I didn't say they were evil. I said their values oppose American capitalism. I don't think they think they are evil, but I do think the methods they use are underhanded and manipulative. Also, if you read any communist philosophy at all, you would know how much BLM belief statements are directly connected to that mode of thought. I agree with your last statement. When I have taken my black friends to the BLM website, they immediately reject what's being advocated there. The slogan first, then you attack anyone that disagrees with BLM and their agenda. Subversion 101. 

Look, dude. I know this can come across as very conspiratorial. But what I listed in the previous post is all facts I have read or watched in videos. My hobby is history and philosophy. My degrees are in poli sci and international affairs. I like to follow evidence. I am very eager to understand individuals and their motivations. I rarely just throw out someone's opinions without carefully considering them unless it's Mikesez. Funding gets difficult once you get to the LLC level because of the laws that allow investors to donate anonymously, but you can see how these organizations are connected. 

I've shared the story about community organizers being tied to universities, whose funding was tied to other organizations before the money trail goes cold. There were 4 layers between Harvard and the group that trained my friend in Native American injustice. 3 more layers above it, then  you can't see who's funding it anymore. That money just isn't falling out of the sky. Community organizers are trained to go into communities and manufacture resentment so those people will vote for the group that is promising to resolve it (only they never do). You don't know how many layers there are to this onion until you start peeling them away.

You don't care about Tony Timpa. Why not? I have said repeatedly we can look at police reform. But the narrative has already become defund the police. Why? Why does those goal posts move so quickly. I can show you were these socialist philosophers say you should defund the police.... 50 years ago. I can show you where these philosophers wanted to destroy heteronormative practices (different name back then). I can show you were they wanted open borders back then. Why is it moving in that direction? We they just prophetic? Is that the inevitable tide of human evolution and a thing of destiny? Or is it part of an ideology that is being driven by a narrative that achieves it's goals then moves the goal posts?

---

You've heard it ad nauseum. There is a group of wealthy influencers that believe in a globalist, socialist world. America is the largest obstacle to that vision, because it has a unique culture that is anti-authoritarian and self-interested. The soviet union broke itself trying to undo the American sense of identity and individuality.

Honestly, dude, it's a waste of time to try to write it all here, because there is SO many different rabbit holes you have to hop down to start making sense of it all. I need to talk about Marxism and the goals of the early 20th century (I could go back further even, to the inception of communist ideals in Germany and the problems they faced as they pitched this philosophy there, before being driven out of the country or underground). I need to talk about the philosophy that preceded it and dealt directly with creating revolution in industrialized countries. I need to talk about the cold war, and the US/Russian propaganda and tactics that lead to practices like disinformation and sleeper cells. I need to talk about the American schools of communist thought and how they also were driven underground before resurfacing  in the 60's. I need to talk about how they came to prominence in institutions and the long term strategies pitched by their philosophers. I also need to talk about what separates them from their Russian counterparts. I need to talk about how things changed as the cold war escalated, especially the use of language, and how the term "communism" became a dirty word. Actually, I'd really need to spend a lot of time on language, as this is a primary strategy in affecting change, but it came directly out of communist thought. I need to talk about how things changed after the cold war ended. I need to talk about how the strategies are continuing to evolve and change as the left takes control of various institutions. Only once we have a shared understanding of that history can we begin to make light of what's going on. How much of this stuff have you actually studied?

The truth is that books can and have been written about this subject. I don't expect everyone to have read any of it, but it's foolish to to pretend that we are not in an ideological war. It's foolish to believe we are in a battle over any one issue. The goal is to find issues in disparate groups and bind them under a similar ideology. Muslim issues. Check. Immigration issues. Check. Black issues. Check. Union issues. Check. LGTBQ issues. Check. Environmental issues. Check. These groups have entirely different goals, but their grievances are being tied to American capitalism. When you go to the major activist websites for these groups, you will see they advocate socialist values and the underlying claim is that these issues can't be resolved in an American capitalist system. The word, comrade, is used twice on the BLM website. Tell me, how many black folks that use the word comrade? These groups are funded by wealthy backers that believe they can help achieve their vision of the world, and it's evident the connection when you start reading their mission statements.

So basically you strongly believe that capitalism tied to nationalism is a much better system of government than socialism tied to globalism, right? That's a legitimate position, nobody has any problem with you feeling strongly about it. It is, of course, something that can and should be debated. That's how democracy should function.

The problem is that you steadfastly link your opponents in that debate to some shadowy international conspiracy to destabilise the world (or being puppets of), instead of being people who just see the world differently to you.

The groups / causes you list as being part of this grand socialist globalist conspiracy to destabilize the world undoubtedly do share some socialist globalist ideas. That is because the people fighting for those causes see those ideas as the best way to find solutions to problems. Of course civil liberties groups, workers rights groups and environmental groups see some solutions in socialist and global thinking, it has always been that way and always will be. That doesn't mean all these groups are being clandestinely manipulated by a bigger force. It just means that many people have different ideas about governance than you do.

To be clear, I'm not arguing one side or the other, and I don't plan to start doing that on this forum. I just think it's massively important to recognize that this is a debate about governance. Framing an opposing viewpoint as being part of some shadowy grand global conspiracy is a hindrance to debate, and a hindrance to the true function of democracy.

---

Here you go, this is an excellent write up on the ideology under girding #BLM. It's not some BLT conspiracy theory, it's very straightforward list of people, organizations, and citations about the money spent for the purpose of razing and rebuilding America. Written by a former White House economist it's also from 4 years ago, so it's not colored by the most current events.

https://www.aim.org/special-report/reds-...es-matter/

Enjoy!

I'm going to read the whole thing, but I just have to laughingly point out that the very first paragraph contains a giant causation fail and a bunch of extreme opinion/speculation.

 Its (blm) agitation has provoked police killings and other violence, lawlessness and unrest in minority communities throughout the U.S. If allowed to continue, that agitation could devolve into anarchy and civil war. The BLM crowd appears to be spoiling for just such an outcome.

I'm supposed to take this seriously?  ^

edit: 
OK. I read the whole thing.  
Now I see why folks are so fearful of this movement.  You're allowing yourself to be scared into believing it's going to turn our nation to widespread socialism and some implied evil. 

Well, socialist elements are already rampant within our governments federal and local. And they will likely continue to pervade even more rather than recede over the coming decades.
 That will happen based on the success of such elements in other nations as models.
 Ford, Rockefeller and Soros' monetary contributions to a dozen different "progressive" organizations that this writer attempts to loosely connect to BLM may help such a shift over time. But it will ultimately be the will of the people to improve the structure of their government and communities that leads the charge at the voting booth to adopt more socialist leaning measures.

edited after reading full article ^

---

I am all about having the debate about capitalism vs socialism. I am one of the few people that lean conservative that recognize that there's a HUGE problem with the marriage between corporations and our government. You will never see me say our form of capitalism is pure in the US. It needs to be addressed ASAP.

The problem is that I don't mind if people see the world differently than me. I can debate the merits of socialism vs. capitalism. They tried to do have this debate on even ground in the 40's. It was rejected. They tried again in the 70's. It was rejected. They tried again a few years ago. It was rejected. THEY are not engaging in that debate. They are engaging in a destruction of commonality, blaming American values and capitalism, and then using the discord as evidence the system is broken. This was a Soviet strategy employed to subvert national governments as they expanded their version of communism. It's documented over and over. The more you see how those things unfolded, the easier the pattern is to detect. Eventually, if the system becomes broken enough, the will have the discussion and the people will be for it. It may take some violence, but the nation is less likely to resist as a whole if people don't believe it can work.

---

I'm going to read the whole thing, but I just have to laughingly point out that the very first paragraph contains a giant causation fail and a bunch of extreme opinion/speculation.


I'm supposed to take this seriously?  ^

edit: 
OK. I read the whole thing.  
Now I see why folks are so fearful of this movement.  You're allowing yourself to be scared into believing it's going to turn our nation to widespread socialism and some implied evil. 

Well, socialist elements are already rampant within our governments federal and local. And they will likely continue to pervade even more rather than recede over the coming decades.
 That will happen based on the success of such elements in other nations as models.
 Ford, Rockefeller and Soros' monetary contributions to a dozen different "progressive" organizations that this writer attempts to loosely connect to BLM may help such a shift over time. But it will ultimately be the will of the people to improve the structure of their government and communities that leads the charge at the voting booth to adopt more socialist leaning measures.

edited after reading full article ^

Yeah, millions upon million dead in the 20th century is "implied." Good enough.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm going to read the whole thing, but I just have to laughingly point out that the very first paragraph contains a giant causation fail and a bunch of extreme opinion/speculation.


I'm supposed to take this seriously?  ^

edit: 
OK. I read the whole thing.  
Now I see why folks are so fearful of this movement.  You're allowing yourself to be scared into believing it's going to turn our nation to widespread socialism and some implied evil. 

Well, socialist elements are already rampant within our governments federal and local. And they will likely continue to pervade even more rather than recede over the coming decades.
 That will happen based on the success of such elements in other nations as models.
 Ford, Rockefeller and Soros' monetary contributions to a dozen different "progressive" organizations that this writer attempts to loosely connect to BLM may help such a shift over time. But it will ultimately be the will of the people to improve the structure of their government and communities that leads the charge at the voting booth to adopt more socialist leaning measures.

edited after reading full article ^

Each one of these socialist practices was enacted during a different push for communism in this country. I don't think socialism is evil because of anything inherent in the ideology. I think it doesn't work, because it can't do what it promises. It uses the flaws of humanity to advance it's ideology, but once instituted in any nation, ultimately fails due to those same flaws in humanity. Look  at the lifespan of socialist nations. It doesn't work.

---

Also, there is a fine line, as I've said before, between socialist and welfare. None of the programs in the US are socialist, with the exception of social security kinda.

---