Lets cut the Crap that Caldwell had nobody.  He also cut/traded good players like Daryl Smith and Monroe.

2012 Jaguar Roster of Notable players:

(RB)Jennings:  He went on to have an ok career.
(LT) Eugene Monroe
(WR) Cecil shorts
(TE) Marcedes Lewis
© Brad Meester
(DE) Tyson Alualu
(DE) Austin Lane
(MLB) Paul Posluszny
(OLB) Daryl Smith
(CB) Derek Cox
(K) Josh Scobee
(S) Landry, Lowery

The roster was not 100% bare.  Each and every one of those players contributed to a new team(outside meester)  Caldwell took a bad roster and made it worse by cutting it more.  Let's not even discuss Bortles.

He got rid of Smith, Monroe and Lewis too soon, that's for sure.

Scobee played a total of 4 games (and was horrible) for the Steelers and they cut him. Been out of the league since.

Meester was done and never played again.

Austen Lane played a total of 2 games after his time here.

Cox played 1 season with the Chargers and was out of the league.

Shorts played in 20 games over 2 seasons (with 2 different teams) after his time here and wasn't really that productive. 53 catches for 636 yards with 2 TD.

Landry and Lowery played 2 and 3 (for a different team in each of those 3 seasons) more years after their time here. Lowery was constantly hurt when he played for us (played in 11 games, 9 games and 3 games). Probably should have kept them for another season or 2, but Lowery always being hurt justified his cut and he had just drafted Cyprien to take Landry's spot. Landry was also 30 years old at the time.

Jennings pounded out a couple of average seasons (4) after his time here, but he's a dime a dozen player and he wasn't really that productive for us to begin with. 224 carries for 944 yards with 7 TD in 3 seasons here.

It's funny that you bring up Alualu honestly. This board did nothing but bash and trash on him during his entire career here. But he did play here for another 4 season after Caldwell got here...

Poz was here for 2 seasons before Caldwell got here and he played another 5 seasons since Caldwell has been here.

How about we play that game with Dave

-#1 2nd overall pick Luke Joeckle "The Joke"  Was off the team before he retired
-#1 3rd overall pick Blake Bortles  Just a disaster of a pick
#1 3rd overall pick Dante Fowler was traded for peanuts .
#1 5th overall pick Jalen Ramsey:  Just a disaster of a situation that made the team look very bad


I could do this with Forunette and lower round picks etc.   Lets also not forget the very poor free agents Caldwell has wasted money on as well.  This team should be a dynasty with the draft capital and salary cap room we have had.

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What "low character guys?"

Telvin Smith made it to a Pro Bowl and his second contract, then he retired before all of this stuff hit the fan with him.  He was a captain at least part of the time here.

Allen Robinson didn't get into any trouble either here or in Chicago.  No signs he was a locker room cancer.  He wanted to play elsewhere, and part of that was due to TC.

Yannick Ngakoue was lauded throughout his career here for being a solid citizen.  When he got into the fight with Fowler, should be no big deal.  It's a football team.  Guys will fight, though admittedly I have rarely seen two guys on the same side of the ball come to blows.  When all was said and done, Fowler was deemed to be in the wrong and shipped out, not Ngakoue. Ir wasn't until TC ticked him (Ngakoue) off in contract negotiations that Ngakoue started being unhappy.  Just because players are upset with their teams over contract negotiations does not make them locker room cancers.  Players know that is part of the business.  MJD and DD both had their contract issues with the team, and they were, by all accounts, solid locker room guys.

That leaves three players who might be construed as "low character guys":  Fowler, Ramsey and Fournette.

The most Fowler is known to have done is gotten into fights-one with Yan and the other with the guy where he threw his beer into a pond.  Is he a hothead?  Perhaps.  A cancer?  I dunno.

Ramsey?  He was outspoken (GQ interview, armored car at training camp), wanted a new deal, faked a back injury to force a trade.  Apparently, the rest of the NFL didn't see him as a problem, because most of the league at least made inquiry regarding his trade availability.  The Rams were so undeterred by ramsey's alleged locker room villainy, they were willing to spend two first round picks and a 4th round pick to obtain him, and with him being on the team since last year, the Rams were still willing to sign him to a lucrative contract extension. 

Which leaves Fournette.  Not too much to say about fournette. 

I think the "character argument against Caldwell is weak in the overall scheme of things.  Being a tough negotiatior or reliant upon the experience and acumen of an agent who is s tough negotiator does not make you a person of low character.

Another Caldwell apologist?  Which one are you?  Cousin?  Nephew?  You guys are hysterical.

Give me your version of why everyone wants to leave Jacksonville then?  They CANNOT WAIT to get out of here.  They get excited when they land up in Cleveland.  Cleveland.  Ohio.  With the Browns.  That Cleveland.

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no "moral victories".  Our record with DC is 36-76.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  Enough said.

Notably absent from your response to me is anything resembling a factual rebuttal.

Accordingly, I urge you to examine the facts, notably:

All of the picks mentioned above all had exposure to TC, and none publicly expressed dissatisfaction here until TC arrived.  It's no coincidence that 25% of all complaints league wide to the NFLPA over fines, etc.
were focused on TC and his oppressive antics.  Just about all of those players you mentioned was tied to some sort of run in with TC or had some complaint about him after the fact.  He has a history both here and in New York of alienating talented players, including Mark Brunell and Tiki Barber, among others.

Yes, the record under Caldwell is not good.

But NO GM was going to win with the roster Caldwell inherited, and I defy you to establish a credible case proving otherwise.  That disastrous roster coupled with Caldwell's miss on Bradley created those early results, and there is some indication that surfaced later that Bradley was NOT Caldwell's pick.  But I still put Bradley in Caldwell's column.

Riddle me this:

Both TC and Caldwell have been here at least 8 seasons.

What 3rd round or lower draft picks made the Pro Bowl under TC?  What players drafted in the 3rd round or lower amounted to any more than roster fillers?

I will spot you Aaron Beasley.

Go.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Lmao trying to convince someone Ramsey is a good character guy lol.  Comedy Gold.

Agree with ARob, the ACL i feel also had something to do with us not offering him a big contract
 
Yawn did get into a couple fights with teammates, Fowler and Linder.  
Saved the money and got 2 1sts, a 2nd, 4th, and a 5th makes DC look like a Genius

How does 36 and 76 make DC look?  "Genius" is not the term I would use there...

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Lmao trying to convince someone Ramsey is a good character guy lol.  Comedy Gold.

Agree with ARob, the ACL i feel also had something to do with us not offering him a big contract
 
Yawn did get into a couple fights with teammates, Fowler and Linder.  
Saved the money and got 2 1sts, a 2nd, 4th, and a 5th makes DC look like a Genius

How does 36 and 76 make DC look?  Genius is not the term I would use there...

I was talking about those trades not his record.  I wanted Dave gone in 2015, with that said he has much improved with his draft picks over the last couple years.  Its looking like we might have the best draft in the league in back to back years

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How does 36 and 76 make DC look?  Genius is not the term I would use there...

I was talking about those trades not his record.  I wanted Dave gone in 2015, with that said he has much improved with his draft picks over the last couple years.  Its looking like we might have the best draft in the league in back to back years

So what minimum record does he need to have this season in your eyes for him to keep his job?

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

He got rid of Smith, Monroe and Lewis too soon, that's for sure.

Scobee played a total of 4 games (and was horrible) for the Steelers and they cut him. Been out of the league since.

Meester was done and never played again.

Austen Lane played a total of 2 games after his time here.

Cox played 1 season with the Chargers and was out of the league.

Shorts played in 20 games over 2 seasons (with 2 different teams) after his time here and wasn't really that productive. 53 catches for 636 yards with 2 TD.

Landry and Lowery played 2 and 3 (for a different team in each of those 3 seasons) more years after their time here. Lowery was constantly hurt when he played for us (played in 11 games, 9 games and 3 games). Probably should have kept them for another season or 2, but Lowery always being hurt justified his cut and he had just drafted Cyprien to take Landry's spot. Landry was also 30 years old at the time.

Jennings pounded out a couple of average seasons (4) after his time here, but he's a dime a dozen player and he wasn't really that productive for us to begin with. 224 carries for 944 yards with 7 TD in 3 seasons here.

It's funny that you bring up Alualu honestly. This board did nothing but bash and trash on him during his entire career here. But he did play here for another 4 season after Caldwell got here...

Poz was here for 2 seasons before Caldwell got here and he played another 5 seasons since Caldwell has been here.

How about we play that game with Dave

-#1 2nd overall pick Luke Joeckle "The Joke"  Was off the team before he retired
-#1 3rd overall pick Blake Bortles  Just a disaster of a pick
#1 3rd overall pick Dante Fowler was traded for peanuts .
#1 5th overall pick Jalen Ramsey:  Just a disaster of a situation that made the team look very bad


I could do this with Forunette and lower round picks etc.   Lets also not forget the very poor free agents Caldwell has wasted money on as well.  This team should be a dynasty with the draft capital and salary cap room we have had.

Joeckel always was going to be one of the top picks. I wanted Ziggy, but Joeckel was constantly in the talks to be #1 overall. He busted, it happens. Wasn't a reach.

Bortles, definitely a reach and a bad pick. No way around it.

Fowler is productive and was drafted right where he should of been. Couldn't pay everybody.

Ramsey is an elite talent and drafted right where he should of been. You can't blame Caldwell for Ramsey acting like a baby and a spoiled brat. That's on him, not Dave.

The point is, I responded to your previous post because you claimed all of those players went on to contribute to their new teams and tried to make it seem like Dave cut them for no reason and that it greatly hurt this team, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Every one of those players didn't contribute to their new teams and most were out of the league within 2 years.

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Alualu sucked donkey dongs for us.  Only two drafted Jaguars defensive linemen in rivaled him for abject uselessness-Renaldo Wynn and Taven Bryan.  If you want to add free agents, throw in Hugh Douglas.

Again, not a great player where he was taken as the 10th overall pick in the draft.  But if were a 3rd rounder, people would have loved him based on his production.  He's been in the League 11 years dude... obviously he's been doing SOMETHING right.

If he were a 3rd rounder, he'd STILL have NO IMPACT whatsoever.

He'd still have been nowhere CLOSE to a positive factor in the game at all.

He HAD no production.  

Has there been a game changing, momentum changing play he had here?!? 

No.

Can you  name one opponent...one game he dominated?!?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I was talking about those trades not his record.  I wanted Dave gone in 2015, with that said he has much improved with his draft picks over the last couple years.  Its looking like we might have the best draft in the league in back to back years

So what minimum record does he need to have this season in your eyes for him to keep his job?

I think its a little deeper than just a record, but i think  a 7-9 or 8-8 and he is safe with all the younger talent improving through out the year

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What "low character guys?"

Telvin Smith made it to a Pro Bowl and his second contract, then he retired before all of this stuff hit the fan with him.  He was a captain at least part of the time here.

Allen Robinson didn't get into any trouble either here or in Chicago.  No signs he was a locker room cancer.  He wanted to play elsewhere, and part of that was due to TC.

Yannick Ngakoue was lauded throughout his career here for being a solid citizen.  When he got into the fight with Fowler, should be no big deal.  It's a football team.  Guys will fight, though admittedly I have rarely seen two guys on the same side of the ball come to blows.  When all was said and done, Fowler was deemed to be in the wrong and shipped out, not Ngakoue. Ir wasn't until TC ticked him (Ngakoue) off in contract negotiations that Ngakoue started being unhappy.  Just because players are upset with their teams over contract negotiations does not make them locker room cancers.  Players know that is part of the business.  MJD and DD both had their contract issues with the team, and they were, by all accounts, solid locker room guys.

That leaves three players who might be construed as "low character guys":  Fowler, Ramsey and Fournette.

The most Fowler is known to have done is gotten into fights-one with Yan and the other with the guy where he threw his beer into a pond.  Is he a hothead?  Perhaps.  A cancer?  I dunno.

Ramsey?  He was outspoken (GQ interview, armored car at training camp), wanted a new deal, faked a back injury to force a trade.  Apparently, the rest of the NFL didn't see him as a problem, because most of the league at least made inquiry regarding his trade availability.  The Rams were so undeterred by ramsey's alleged locker room villainy, they were willing to spend two first round picks and a 4th round pick to obtain him, and with him being on the team since last year, the Rams were still willing to sign him to a lucrative contract extension. 

Which leaves Fournette.  Not too much to say about fournette. 

I think the "character argument against Caldwell is weak in the overall scheme of things.  Being a tough negotiatior or reliant upon the experience and acumen of an agent who is s tough negotiator does not make you a person of low character.

Lmao trying to convince someone Ramsey is a good character guy lol.  Comedy Gold.

Agree with ARob, the ACL i feel also had something to do with us not offering him a big contract
 
Yawn did get into a couple fights with teammates, Fowler and Linder.  
Saved the money and got 2 1sts, a 2nd, 4th, and a 5th makes DC look like a Genius

Not trying to convince anyone Ramsey is a "good character guy," only that his "bad character" does not outweigh his on field contributions, as evidenced by the Rams trade for him, his pro bowl, and the Rams re-signing him.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Lmao trying to convince someone Ramsey is a good character guy lol.  Comedy Gold.

Agree with ARob, the ACL i feel also had something to do with us not offering him a big contract
 
Yawn did get into a couple fights with teammates, Fowler and Linder.  
Saved the money and got 2 1sts, a 2nd, 4th, and a 5th makes DC look like a Genius

Not trying to convince anyone Ramsey is a "good character guy," only that his "bad character" does not outweigh his on field contributions, as evidenced by the Rams trade for him, his pro bowl, and the Rams re-signing him.

Depends on the type of locker room you want, hes not the guy I want my rookies around.  When the Rams start losing they will then know they made a mistake signing Ramsey to that contract because he wont be happy and will cause problems.  Pro Bowl?  With that contract he should be an All Pro

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So what minimum record does he need to have this season in your eyes for him to keep his job?

I think its a little deeper than just a record, but i think  a 7-9 or 8-8 and he is safe with all the younger talent improving through out the year

I agree with that.  I also think 6-10 or worse... CLEAN HOUSE.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Not trying to convince anyone Ramsey is a "good character guy," only that his "bad character" does not outweigh his on field contributions, as evidenced by the Rams trade for him, his pro bowl, and the Rams re-signing him.

Depends on the type of locker room you want, hes not the guy I want my rookies around.  When the Rams start losing they will then know they made a mistake signing Ramsey to that contract because he wont be happy and will cause problems.  Pro Bowl?  With that contract he should be an All Pro

He hasn't been there a full season yet,

Maybe he becomes All Pro this year.

But his contract bolsters my argument.

Were he the malignant locker room tumor so many suggest, the Rams would not have signed him to such a deal.

If the Rams start losing, it doesn't mean the Ramsey contract was a mistake.  There are 52 other guys on the active roster.  Ramsey can't be blamed if the Rams' brass misses on other draft picks, or if guys get seriously injured and miss significant time, etc.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Regardless if we like it or not, Caldwell gets this year to keep his job.. Here is hoping the Jaguars turn it around and start winning. History of this team has jaded me.

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Again, not a great player where he was taken as the 10th overall pick in the draft.  But if were a 3rd rounder, people would have loved him based on his production.  He's been in the League 11 years dude... obviously he's been doing SOMETHING right.

If he were a 3rd rounder, he'd STILL have NO IMPACT whatsoever.

He'd still have been nowhere CLOSE to a positive factor in the game at all.

He HAD no production.  

Has there been a game changing, momentum changing play he had here?!? 

No.

Can you  name one opponent...one game he dominated?!?

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2993...e-rankings

Tyson is currently the #1 ranked DT in the NFL for run stop win rate and #2 in the NFL for pass rush win rate.

Would you like anything else?

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

If he were a 3rd rounder, he'd STILL have NO IMPACT whatsoever.

He'd still have been nowhere CLOSE to a positive factor in the game at all.

He HAD no production.  

Has there been a game changing, momentum changing play he had here?!? 

No.

Can you  name one opponent...one game he dominated?!?

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2993...e-rankings

Tyson is currently the #1 ranked DT in the NFL for run stop win rate and #2 in the NFL for pass rush win rate.

Would you like anything else?

What did he do for Jacksonville?!?

That's the basis of my complaint.

[BLEEP] what he may or may not do with Pittsburgh, especially against two mediocre at best running attacks.

THEY didn't blow the 10th overall pick on him.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2993...e-rankings

Tyson is currently the #1 ranked DT in the NFL for run stop win rate and #2 in the NFL for pass rush win rate.

Would you like anything else?

What did he do for Jacksonville?!?

That's the basis of my complaint.

[BLEEP] what he may or may not do with Pittsburgh, especially against two mediocre at best running attacks.

THEY didn't blow the 10th overall pick on him.

Like I said... if he was a 3rd round pick, you'd have been more than fine with him.  But you're an emotional fan and that emotion blinds your logic.  As demonstrated by you saying "THEY didn't blow the 10th overall pick on him".  Take a breath... find your happy place.

He was a solid and steady player here for a long time.  Nothing spectacular.  Definitely over-drafted.  But no one plays 11 years in the NFL without being productive.  You thinking that is the case is just emotional ignorance.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Notably absent from your response to me is anything resembling a factual rebuttal.

Accordingly, I urge you to examine the facts, notably:

I gave you the only true facts required concerning Caldwell:

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 36-76.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.

THOSE are facts.  They are indisputable.  You need a crash course in facts versus opinions. What you spewed out to me was a bunch of opinion-based nonsense.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

Alualu was decent for us. He also has been solid/good for the Steelers.
Monroe was better than a lot of OT we've had after he left, if not better than all of them.
Smith was still good
Lewis was decent

I am so tired of talking about Caldwell, the record says it all, that, his Bortles pick and his choice of Bradley.

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BTW, it is extremely funny how grades matter with players that are on the team right now, the moment they leave they don't matter at all xD

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Alualu was decent for us. He also has been solid/good for the Steelers.
Monroe was better than a lot of OT we've had after he left, if not better than all of them.
Smith was still good
Lewis was decent

I am so tired of talking about Caldwell, the record says it all, that, his Bortles pick and his choice of Bradley.

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BTW, it is extremely funny how grades matter with players that are on the team right now, the moment they leave they don't matter at all xD

I haven't seen anyone saying he isnt playing good these last few years.  The question is what did he do for us?  62 is the highest pff grade he had when he played here if you want to tak about grades. Taven Bryan's was higher than that last year and his rookie year lol

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I haven't seen anyone saying he isnt playing good these last few years.  The question is what did he do for us?  62 is the highest pff grade he had when he played here if you want to tak about grades. Taven Bryan's was higher than that last year and his rookie year lol

You're right.  A solid but not spectacular player here in Jax.  Not many big pluses, nor big minuses on his grade sheet.  Like I said, he was way over-drafted, but if he was a 3rd rounder you would say "good pick".  Taven was a 1st rounder too and should be a better player than Tyson.  But Alualu has been a reliable player who has stayed healthy and been productive for an 11-year-and-counting career.  On average, you would take that from a 3rd rounder and feel good about it... but not the career you want your 10th overall pick in the first round to have.  Obviously, however, NFL execs (including Caldwell) have liked him enough to give him multiple contracts, so he is bringing some value and production.

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This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.