For the guys that likes to mix need and BPA.  What if the new GM has Fields at the top of his board after Lawrence but he also has Jones and Trask very close.  Do you take Fields at 2 since he is just a little higher or do you go with value and take Sewell and grab Jones and Trask with your 1st?

And what happens if Jones and Trask are taken before your 2nd 1st rounder? Rams (who you thought would have a worse record than the Jags) are going to be picking mid to late 20s.

You don’t risk passing on who you deem a franchise QB because “hey. There MIGHT be another one later.”

Sewell is a fantastic LT prospect. No doubt. But he means nothing if the QB is still Luton or Minshew. Fields is super talented and his one bad game shouldn’t  deter you from his overall gameplay. Dude has 6 interceptions in 506 attempts. He’s not turnover prone, he’s accurate and athletic. 

And this all will be a moot point if the coaching staff is still bad. Fields, Wilson or Trask won’t succeed if the coaching staff is still really bad.

Get Joe Brady and then trust from there.

Exactly. If we don't take a QB at #2, you then have a good number of teams that could take them before our 2nd 1st rounder.

List of possible teams who pick after our 1st and before our 2nd pick, who could take a QB imo.

Washington at 5
Giants at 7
Atlanta at 9
Carolina at 10
Detroit at 11
New England at 12
Minnesota at 13
Chicago at 16

I don't think anybody would be surprised by any of those teams grabbing a QB in the 1st round. Maybe the Giants, but it's not like Jones has been any good.

And as far as trading up in the 1st round to try and get one, this team has no business giving away any resources to move up. This team has way too many holes/lack of talent to fill to be giving away high picks, to move back up in the 1st round for a QB.

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For the guys that likes to mix need and BPA.  What if the new GM has Fields at the top of his board after Lawrence but he also has Jones and Trask very close.  Do you take Fields at 2 since he is just a little higher or do you go with value and take Sewell and grab Jones and Trask with your 1st?

You mean how NFL teams draft? It'd depend on a lot of factors, what kind of grade do you have on the QBs. Are fields and Mac Jones both graded as can't miss guys? Or developmental players? 

If you have Fields and Jones graded as long time franchise QBs you take your preferred one as early as possible and let the rest fall into place

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For the guys that likes to mix need and BPA.  What if the new GM has Fields at the top of his board after Lawrence but he also has Jones and Trask very close.  Do you take Fields at 2 since he is just a little higher or do you go with value and take Sewell and grab Jones and Trask with your 1st?

You mean how NFL teams draft? It'd depend on a lot of factors, what kind of grade do you have on the QBs. Are fields and Mac Jones both graded as can't miss guys? Or developmental players? 

If you have Fields and Jones graded as long time franchise QBs you take your preferred one as early as possible and let the rest fall into place

95% of the time the great franchises take the BPA.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...get-fired/

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https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/4/7/18117...l-redskins

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You mean how NFL teams draft? It'd depend on a lot of factors, what kind of grade do you have on the QBs. Are fields and Mac Jones both graded as can't miss guys? Or developmental players? 

If you have Fields and Jones graded as long time franchise QBs you take your preferred one as early as possible and let the rest fall into place

95% of the time the great franchises take the BPA.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...get-fired/

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https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/4/7/18117...l-redskins

Extremely unsure how you don't see it's not an either or. Nobody is saying to draft for need like Arians is opposed to....need is automatically factored into the process by NFL teams. 

Also included is depth of class to correctly place which position to target, the contract status of players on the roster (which the article you linked agrees with) and also positional value. Remember NFLs draft with a several year window in mind, not just the upcoming year. 

If you want to use Taven Bryan as a test case. Was Taven a need pick? Or a "BAP" pick? The reality is.. He was both! He was in the highest tier of player available for the FO but also a need as Malik was going to cut the following year. He wasn't one or the other

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95% of the time the great franchises take the BPA.

95% of the time the great franchises already have a franchise QB.

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95% of the time the great franchises take the BPA.

95% of the time the great franchises already have a franchise QB.

True, and we have missed and picked the wrong one to many times.  Hopefully our new GM hits on his picks

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This is going to be an annoying fall and spring.

Same dumb arguments about “BAP” only now, we get to argue about which QB to take.

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It doesn't matter who they pick, it ultimately be the wrong one.

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We received a fairly good QB but sacrificed him to the gods of incompetence like Cincinnati has done with Joe Burrow. Their injuries were only a matter of time behind those sieves of O lines, and it's a damn shame too.

I'm not a football scholar by any stretch, but it seems simple logic that if you have a QB who is capable of moving the needle, protection is the first priority. Hopefully that was in Cincy's cards before next season. We, on the other hand, didn't do a damn thing when it was a glaring need. So here we are again at the bottom of the hole and digging with all our might.

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95% of the time the great franchises take the BPA.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...get-fired/

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https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/4/7/18117...l-redskins

Extremely unsure how you don't see it's not an either or. Nobody is saying to draft for need like Arians is opposed to....need is automatically factored into the process by NFL teams. 

Also included is depth of class to correctly place which position to target, the contract status of players on the roster (which the article you linked agrees with) and also positional value. Remember NFLs draft with a several year window in mind, not just the upcoming year. 

If you want to use Taven Bryan as a test case. Was Taven a need pick? Or a "BAP" pick? The reality is.. He was both! He was in the highest tier of player available for the FO but also a need as Malik was going to cut the following year. He wasn't one or the other

Not sure how you dont understand certain teams reach for a player of need because of need instead of taking the better player at another position where it is not as great of a need. Caldwell has done it numerous times as have most fired GMs. Bryan was the case of them thinking this team was built and drafting for the future, was a needs pick because as you said Malik was going to get cut, no way they thought he was the best player available. Im a Gators fan and I didnt even feel that way or like the pick

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We received a fairly good QB but sacrificed him to the gods of incompetence like Cincinnati has done with Joe Burrow. Their injuries were only a matter of time behind those sieves of O lines, and it's a damn shame too.

I'm not a football scholar by any stretch, but it seems simple logic that if you have a QB who is capable of moving the needle, protection is the first priority. Hopefully that was in Cincy's cards before next season. We, on the other hand, didn't do a damn thing when it was a glaring need. So here we are again at the bottom of the hole and digging with all our might.

We have possibly the best LT prospect in the last decade or 2 sitting there when we pick, let's see what we do.

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Regardless of the pick, I think we will al support the guy just hopefully they finally find the right guy or guys and draft some building blocks

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Not trying to derail the thread, but I have to say, none of this matters unless we hire a new GM who knows how to build a sustainable roster, and a head coach who can get the most out of the players.  To me, Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else won't make a dime's worth of difference unless we have the right people at the top of the organization running things.

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Not trying to derail the thread, but I have to say, none of this matters unless we hire a new GM who knows how to build a sustainable roster, and a head coach who can get the most out of the players.  To me, Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else won't make a dime's worth of difference unless we have the right people at the top of the organization running things.

Agreed 100%  its starts at the top.  The most important thing this offseason is finding the right GM

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I think it's a given Marrone is gone at the end of this season. Caldwell is a question mark.

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I think it's a given Marrone is gone at the end of this season. Caldwell is a question mark.

If it was one ot the other for me I'd rather get rid of Caldwell.  His drafting or lack there of, has hurt this team since his first draft in 2013 when he got here

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Regardless of the pick, I think we will al support the guy just hopefully they finally find the right guy or guys and draft some building blocks

I think history has taught us we won't all support the guy no matter who he is (well unless it's Trevor perhaps)
If Fields is the pick (and I think he will be) there is at least one person who is clearly not a fan and will take a lot of instant success and good games to turn his opinion.

If it's anyone else else there will be a contingent on the board salty about their guy not being taken or the FO doing it "wrong" or whatever.
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I think some people are confusing certain posts about Fields and guys like Trask as ranking them one better than the other. Aside from one poster I don't think anyone is saying Trask better than Fields or should be taken top 5. There is a separate conversation being had about Trask's NFL viability on the whole and his over/underratedness. In that my opinion is that his average arm strength and pure pocket passer style has him being underrated in all other aspects of the game. Some think I'm being a Gator homer, but homer I'm not. I was never on board with Tebow being an NFL QB... I didn't like the Taven Bryan pick... the beat goes on.

The discussion has been mostly about acknowledging that Fields himself is not without faults (neither is Trevor, imo). And whether there is a draft philosophy that sees this as a relatively deep QB draft and would take a new GM to a place where he may take another premium position such as LT first and then address QB elsewhere.

It's obviously not a popular idea with many posters and I get it. But it's laughable that people sit back and say "you're stuck in your opinion" when they are also stuck in theirs, basially refusing to even entertain the conversation, which I mean what are we even doing on here then unless you come just to argue and pound your chest. People point out that so and so liked a prospect that hasn't been good when every year people like guys like Haskins, Winston, Mariota, Darnold and they aren't very good or flat out suck too.
Plainly, there are more QB misses from real GMs and armchair GMs alike. 

If/when we draft Fields at 2, I personally will support him. I always give our QBs tons of rope. From Garrard to Gabbert to riding the BOAT longer than most.
To come on here just attacking guys all the time is kinda sad imo. Whether that's players or GMs or coaches... whatever. If ANY of us could do it better, we'd be doing it instead of on this damn message board.

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I think it's a given Marrone is gone at the end of this season. Caldwell is a question mark.

I really think it's gotta be a top to bottom cleaning. Otherwise... what the Hell are we doing? If it's the coach, Caldwell picked the coach or had a hand in it... If it's the personnel Caldwell picked them or had a hand in the roster... If it's not developing guys the coaches have their hands in that. I can't say it's one thing over the other... 


Hell, if anything the team looks like it's still playing hard for Marrone. If it's one or the other Caldwell gotta go.
But really, no one should be left from this regime/staff.

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I think it's a given Marrone is gone at the end of this season. Caldwell is a question mark.

If it was one ot the other for me I'd rather get rid of Caldwell.  His drafting or lack there of, has hurt this team since his first draft in 2013 when he got here

I agree.  The biggest problem this franchise has is a lack of talent on the roster.  It's not just the drafting.  It's player retention also.  

Ideally, though, I'd like to see a clean sweep with both GM and HC replaced.

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I think it's a given Marrone is gone at the end of this season. Caldwell is a question mark.

If it was one ot the other for me I'd rather get rid of Caldwell.  His drafting or lack there of, has hurt this team since his first draft in 2013 when he got here

Quite frankly I'm surprised Caldwell is not gone, whether by firing or by his own volition. Khan bringing in Coughlin was a clear undermining of Caldwell's authority and expectations, in my opinion.

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Regardless of the pick, I think we will al support the guy just hopefully they finally find the right guy or guys and draft some building blocks

I think history has taught us we won't all support the guy no matter who he is (well unless it's Trevor perhaps)
If Fields is the pick (and I think he will be) there is at least one person who is clearly not a fan and will take a lot of instant success and good games to turn his opinion.

If it's anyone else else there will be a contingent on the board salty about their guy not being taken or the FO doing it "wrong" or whatever.
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I think some people are confusing certain posts about Fields and guys like Trask as ranking them one better than the other. Aside from one poster I don't think anyone is saying Trask better than Fields or should be taken top 5. There is a separate conversation being had about Trask's NFL viability on the whole and his over/underratedness. In that my opinion is that his average arm strength and pure pocket passer style has him being underrated in all other aspects of the game. Some think I'm being a Gator homer, but homer I'm not. I was never on board with Tebow being an NFL QB... I didn't like the Taven Bryan pick... the beat goes on.

The discussion has been mostly about acknowledging that Fields himself is not without faults (neither is Trevor, imo). And whether there is a draft philosophy that sees this as a relatively deep QB draft and would take a new GM to a place where he may take another premium position such as LT first and then address QB elsewhere.

It's obviously not a popular idea with many posters and I get it. But it's laughable that people sit back and say "you're stuck in your opinion" when they are also stuck in theirs, basially refusing to even entertain the conversation, which I mean what are we even doing on here then unless you come just to argue and pound your chest. People point out that so and so liked a prospect that hasn't been good when every year people like guys like Haskins, Winston, Mariota, Darnold and they aren't very good or flat out suck too.
Plainly, there are more QB misses from real GMs and armchair GMs alike. 

If/when we draft Fields at 2, I personally will support him. I always give our QBs tons of rope. From Garrard to Gabbert to riding the BOAT longer than most.
To come on here just attacking guys all the time is kinda sad imo. Whether that's players or GMs or coaches... whatever. If ANY of us could do it better, we'd be doing it instead of on this damn message board.

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I think it's a given Marrone is gone at the end of this season. Caldwell is a question mark.

I really think it's gotta be a top to bottom cleaning. Otherwise... what the Hell are we doing? If it's the coach, Caldwell picked the coach or had a hand in it... If it's the personnel Caldwell picked them or had a hand in the roster... If it's not developing guys the coaches have their hands in that. I can't say it's one thing over the other... 


Hell, if anything the team looks like it's still playing hard for Marrone. If it's one or the other Caldwell gotta go.
But really, no one should be left from this regime/staff.

You're right and I think it ties in with the stadium issue. If Khan wants to build his downtown empire, he needs to inspire it with something he can control - this team. He needs to get them winning consistently, and soon, or Jacksonville will pull the rug out from under him and themselves.

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Not trying to derail the thread, but I have to say, none of this matters unless we hire a new GM who knows how to build a sustainable roster, and a head coach who can get the most out of the players.  To me, Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else won't make a dime's worth of difference unless we have the right people at the top of the organization running things.

Agreed. We all know that the current front office will screw up any picks they make.

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