I would not put it past the nimby's running this city to turn down Lot j and put the future of the team here into serious question.

---

Lot J is fine as long as the city gets revenue or ownership for the money they put up. There is no lease extension and I don't think the city is getting ownership or revenue.

Extended the lease or make it auto extend as long as the city keeps the stadium up to standards. Then lot J is easy.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

---

If we lose the Jags, Jacksonville will die. Do what we can top keep them.

---

If we lose the Jags, Jacksonville will die. Do what we can top keep them.

Lol, that's a little extreme. The NFL isn't THAT important.

---

Which is why the city should develop downtown.

I'm speaking anecdotally here, but I really believe many people here in Jax want our downtown to develop and be a center piece of this city and it's future.

I just think it's a select few who are holding back the progression of our city unfortunately. It's time to get with it folks, we have a beautiful city so lets take advantage of that.

I can guarantee you that most people in Jax don't give a rat's rear end about downtown, and I 'll even bet that 40 to 50 % of the population in the Jax metro area have never even been downtown for anything other than a Jaguars game. And what 'select few' are you even talking about? If you're talking about the churches, those buildings are far from the core of downtown, and many of the attendees go to the games after services as well, so in a way, it serves as a draw for the team. And those church populations all migrated to the burbs 10 years ago anyway, so it isnt even a thing anymore. Politicians should welcome development. Business should as well. But as someone who worked downtown for 30 yrs, heard all this 'promise of development' stuff every 5 to 10 years, and have personally seen/reviewed proposed Downtown development plans as part of my job (along with surveys of prospective home buyers and where they most preferred to live), i can tell you that downtown will always be undevelopable crap until they are allowed to return to what they were in the 60s, a separate township that can deal with developing business on their own terms, apart from the rest of Duval county. There's still way too much land in the Jax metro area to still be developed before natural gentrification takes place downtown and all the remaining economically disadvantaged are run out of Springfield and the Pheonix Ave area. Till then, people with money will choose a new house/community in a safer area. NYC and its bouroughs have experienced natural gentrification because they are out of room and demand for property drives it. Jax tries to force it with proposed 'build it and they will come' projects, but it wont work organically till developers are out of room.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

I'm speaking anecdotally here, but I really believe many people here in Jax want our downtown to develop and be a center piece of this city and it's future.

I just think it's a select few who are holding back the progression of our city unfortunately. It's time to get with it folks, we have a beautiful city so lets take advantage of that.

I can guarantee you that most people in Jax don't give a rat's rear end about downtown, and I 'll even bet that 40 to 50 % of the population in the Jax metro area have never even been downtown for anything other than a Jaguars game. And what 'select few' are you even talking about? If you're talking about the churches, those buildings are far from the core of downtown, and many of the attendees go to the games after services as well, so in a way,  it serves as a draw for the team.  And those church populations  all migrated to the burbs 10 years ago anyway, so it isnt even a thing anymore. Politicians should welcome development. Business should as well. But as someone who worked downtown for 30 yrs, heard all this 'promise of development' stuff every 5 to 10 years, and have personally seen/reviewed proposed Downtown development plans as part of my job (along with surveys of prospective home buyers and where they most preferred to live), i can tell you that downtown will always be undevelopable crap until they are allowed to return to what they were in the 60s, a separate township that can deal with developing business on their own terms, apart from the rest of Duval county. There's still way too much land in the Jax metro area to still be developed before natural gentrification takes place downtown and all the remaining economically disadvantaged are run out of Springfield and the Pheonix Ave area. Till then, people with money will choose a new house/community in a safer area.  NYC and its bouroughs have experienced natural gentrification because they are out of room and demand for property drives it. Jax tries to force it with proposed 'build it and they will come' projects, but it wont work organically till developers are out of room.

The problem, if there is one, with Jacksonville, is that there's no "there" there.  People drive through Jacksonville on any road in any direction, and they say, "What exactly is this place? Where is everything?"  

Not everyone wants to live in a suburb.  A lot of people want to live in a city.  There's a reason apartments in big cities are so expensive: supply and demand.  People are willing to pay huge prices for the ability to live in a city, where you can go downstairs and right there within a few feet there are restaurants and bars and nightlife and museums and concert halls.

---

I'm speaking anecdotally here, but I really believe many people here in Jax want our downtown to develop and be a center piece of this city and it's future.

I just think it's a select few who are holding back the progression of our city unfortunately. It's time to get with it folks, we have a beautiful city so lets take advantage of that.

I can guarantee you that most people in Jax don't give a rat's rear end about downtown, and I 'll even bet that 40 to 50 % of the population in the Jax metro area have never even been downtown for anything other than a Jaguars game. And what 'select few' are you even talking about? If you're talking about the churches, those buildings are far from the core of downtown, and many of the attendees go to the games after services as well, so in a way,  it serves as a draw for the team.  And those church populations  all migrated to the burbs 10 years ago anyway, so it isnt even a thing anymore. Politicians should welcome development. Business should as well. But as someone who worked downtown for 30 yrs, heard all this 'promise of development' stuff every 5 to 10 years, and have personally seen/reviewed proposed Downtown development plans as part of my job (along with surveys of prospective home buyers and where they most preferred to live), i can tell you that downtown will always be undevelopable crap until they are allowed to return to what they were in the 60s, a separate township that can deal with developing business on their own terms, apart from the rest of Duval county. There's still way too much land in the Jax metro area to still be developed before natural gentrification takes place downtown and all the remaining economically disadvantaged are run out of Springfield and the Pheonix Ave area. Till then, people with money will choose a new house/community in a safer area.  NYC and its bouroughs have experienced natural gentrification because they are out of room and demand for property drives it. Jax tries to force it with proposed 'build it and they will come' projects, but it wont work organically till developers are out of room.

Ding, ding, ding.

Jacksonville will never be the populous city that forces downtown development do to natural gentrification. At least not in the next 100 years.

We will always have chicken teriyaki at the Landing during lunch though. Oh wait....

---

COVID has changed the paradigm on WFH rules. Society will return to its old ways, with the exception of newly established work habits.

Younger people with means like to congregate. Look at the bevy of apartments and condos around the St. Johns Town Center. If a shopping, drinking and dining district can be established downtown, young people working from home will want to live there.

---

https://sports.theonion.com/jacksonville...1845784622

“Jaguars fans occupy a very small habitat along the Atlantic coast where they are in constant threat by encroaching Bucs and Falcons markets. Sadly, many young Jacksonville fans will die in boating or hunting accidents before reaching sexual maturity, but once they breed they can produce a dozen offspring, and most of those will go on to become adult Jaguars fans. So we still have hope this population will endure.”

---

https://sports.theonion.com/jacksonville...1845784622

“Jaguars fans occupy a very small habitat along the Atlantic coast where they are in constant threat by encroaching Bucs and Falcons markets. Sadly, many young Jacksonville fans will die in boating or hunting accidents before reaching sexual maturity, but once they breed they can produce a dozen offspring, and most of those will go on to become adult Jaguars fans. So we still have hope this population will endure.”

That article is such BS. There ain’t no Hobby Lobby stores here.

---

https://sports.theonion.com/jacksonville...1845784622

“Jaguars fans occupy a very small habitat along the Atlantic coast where they are in constant threat by encroaching Bucs and Falcons markets. Sadly, many young Jacksonville fans will die in boating or hunting accidents before reaching sexual maturity, but once they breed they can produce a dozen offspring, and most of those will go on to become adult Jaguars fans. So we still have hope this population will endure.”

That article is such BS. There ain’t no Hobby Lobby stores here.

There's one on the south side near the exit 3 or 5, I think there is another somewhere else.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

---

That article is such BS. There ain’t no Hobby Lobby stores here.

There's one on the south side near the exit 3 or 5, I think there is another somewhere else.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

There's one near the shopping center near the airport. We're downright cosmopolitan!

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

I would not put it past the nimby's running this city to turn down Lot j and put the future of the team here into serious question.

Well, the fact is life in Jacksonville and all of Florida will be perfectly fine without the Jaguars. That is reality. Shad knows this and the demands are just going to keep being raised until he gets his way out. It's obvious the track the team is on, enjoy it while it lasts. Heck, Jacksonville's citizens won't be strapped with the useless Lot J project/bill if they do say no, so that's nice isn't it?

---

I would not put it past the nimby's running this city to turn down Lot j and put the future of the team here into serious question.

Well, the fact is life in Jacksonville and all of Florida will be perfectly fine without the Jaguars. That is reality. Shad knows this and the demands are just going to keep being raised until he gets his way out. It's obvious the track the team is on, enjoy it while it lasts. Heck, Jacksonville's citizens won't be strapped with the useless Lot J project/bill if they do say no, so that's nice isn't it?

Of course we'll survive without the Jaguars. However, passing up this opportunity to leverage the visibility and potential for growth an NFL franchise brings to the city is shortsighted and, well, dumb. Plenty of other successful franchises spent decades lost in the wilderness before they achieved notoriety. The Jags are no different. It's my fear if we let the team relocate, Jacksonville will suffer even worse from its label as a backwater hick town. You might be satisfied with that, but many of us aren't. 

 DIA passes Lot J recommendations on to Jacksonville City Council

Council will have special committee meeting on project Thursday

---

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020...velopment/

The UNF’s Public Opinion Research Lab’s latest “Jax Speaks” poll found 54% either strongly or somewhat opposed to the city spending $233 million in direct costs and loan to fund the Lot J proposal, with 43% strongly or somewhat supportive.

Of the people surveyed who believed having an NFL team is important to the city, 72% supported the Lot J deal, while among those who do not think the team is important to Jacksonville, only 15% support the proposal.

A strong majority of all respondents -- 80% -- said the question should be put to Jacksonville voters in the form of a referendum.

“A massive project like the Lot J plan is bound to have mixed public support, but 37% of that opposition strongly opposes the proposal as it is,” said Dr. Michael Binder, director of the UNF Public Opinion Research Lab. “Jacksonville voters would like to have a say in these issues, particularly when it concerns such a large price tag.”

Of those polled, 33% said having an NFL franchise is very important to Jacksonville and 48% said it was moderately or slightly important. Only 20% said having the Jaguars in Jacksonville was not important at all.

Respondents were also asked whether they support or oppose the city of Jacksonville splitting an estimated $250 million cost of major improvements to TIAA Bank Field with the Jaguars. A large majority -- 62% -- were opposed to this idea, with just 37% supporting the proposal. An even greater majority -- 77% -- opposed building a new stadium for $700 million, with only 21% supported splitting the costs of a new stadium.

Sorry, read at the bottom that this is a poll of 644 voters. Extremely small sample size.

---

Well, the fact is life in Jacksonville and all of Florida will be perfectly fine without the Jaguars. That is reality. Shad knows this and the demands are just going to keep being raised until he gets his way out. It's obvious the track the team is on, enjoy it while it lasts. Heck, Jacksonville's citizens won't be strapped with the useless Lot J project/bill if they do say no, so that's nice isn't it?

Of course we'll survive without the Jaguars. However, passing up this opportunity to leverage the visibility and potential for growth an NFL franchise brings to the city is shortsighted and, well, dumb. Plenty of other successful franchises spent decades lost in the wilderness before they achieved notoriety. The Jags are no different. It's my fear if we let the team relocate, Jacksonville will suffer even worse from its label as a backwater hick town. You might be satisfied with that, but many of us aren't. 

 DIA passes Lot J recommendations on to Jacksonville City Council

Council will have special committee meeting on project Thursday

You think a decent football team and a few hotels will change how people view Jacksonville? lol. An NFL franchise is a net negative to every hosting city economically speaking. "Growth" as you explain it comes largely from exploiting taxpayers into thinking these things are good for their city in the long run(they aren't) https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/sta...ll-073015/. This is like trying to replenish a swimming pool by taking water from the deep end and dumping it in the shallow end and thinking the pool will eventually be full. An NFL team will never grow a city, nor will a few hotels all of a sudden make people think North Florida isn't hickville. I think that's pretty naive to think this team or a few hotels would do anything to help J'villes image.

---

Got us a Hobby Lobby in the TC.

---

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020...velopment/

The UNF’s Public Opinion Research Lab’s latest “Jax Speaks” poll found 54% either strongly or somewhat opposed to the city spending $233 million in direct costs and loan to fund the Lot J proposal, with 43% strongly or somewhat supportive.

Of the people surveyed who believed having an NFL team is important to the city, 72% supported the Lot J deal, while among those who do not think the team is important to Jacksonville, only 15% support the proposal.

A strong majority of all respondents -- 80% -- said the question should be put to Jacksonville voters in the form of a referendum.

“A massive project like the Lot J plan is bound to have mixed public support, but 37% of that opposition strongly opposes the proposal as it is,” said Dr. Michael Binder, director of the UNF Public Opinion Research Lab. “Jacksonville voters would like to have a say in these issues, particularly when it concerns such a large price tag.”

Of those polled, 33% said having an NFL franchise is very important to Jacksonville and 48% said it was moderately or slightly important. Only 20% said having the Jaguars in Jacksonville was not important at all.

Respondents were also asked whether they support or oppose the city of Jacksonville splitting an estimated $250 million cost of major improvements to TIAA Bank Field with the Jaguars. A large majority -- 62% -- were opposed to this idea, with just 37% supporting the proposal. An even greater majority -- 77% -- opposed building a new stadium for $700 million, with only 21% supported splitting the costs of a new stadium.

Sorry, read at the bottom that this is a poll of 644 voters. Extremely small sample size.

Small maybe, but the question really is does it fall within parameters for being a statistically valid sample? That aside, if this ever goes to a public referendum, then this issue is probably dead. As i may have stated somewhere in a previous post, at least 50% of Jax metro residents don't care about downtown. Similar samples that I did 20 years ago for work bore this out, and it still seems true today. And asking for this in the middle of a pandemic seems myopic at best, but business is business. It would be interesting to see a similar poll if the proposed location was different than Lot J. Another interesting factor would be if a winning team would move any of these numbers. In that case, we are probably doomed.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

I can guarantee you that most people in Jax don't give a rat's rear end about downtown, and I 'll even bet that 40 to 50 % of the population in the Jax metro area have never even been downtown for anything other than a Jaguars game. And what 'select few' are you even talking about? If you're talking about the churches, those buildings are far from the core of downtown, and many of the attendees go to the games after services as well, so in a way,  it serves as a draw for the team.  And those church populations  all migrated to the burbs 10 years ago anyway, so it isnt even a thing anymore. Politicians should welcome development. Business should as well. But as someone who worked downtown for 30 yrs, heard all this 'promise of development' stuff every 5 to 10 years, and have personally seen/reviewed proposed Downtown development plans as part of my job (along with surveys of prospective home buyers and where they most preferred to live), i can tell you that downtown will always be undevelopable crap until they are allowed to return to what they were in the 60s, a separate township that can deal with developing business on their own terms, apart from the rest of Duval county. There's still way too much land in the Jax metro area to still be developed before natural gentrification takes place downtown and all the remaining economically disadvantaged are run out of Springfield and the Pheonix Ave area. Till then, people with money will choose a new house/community in a safer area.  NYC and its bouroughs have experienced natural gentrification because they are out of room and demand for property drives it. Jax tries to force it with proposed 'build it and they will come' projects, but it wont work organically till developers are out of room.

The problem, if there is one, with Jacksonville, is that there's no "there" there.  People drive through Jacksonville on any road in any direction, and they say, "What exactly is this place? Where is everything?"  

Not everyone wants to live in a suburb.  A lot of people want to live in a city.  There's a reason apartments in big cities are so expensive: supply and demand.  People are willing to pay huge prices for the ability to live in a city, where you can go downstairs and right there within a few feet there are restaurants and bars and nightlife and museums and concert halls.

Exactly. It shouldn't be a surprise when we hamper our own city development projects and then wonder why nobody wants to live in a certain area or businesses don't migrate into the city even further. 

As for my friend who quoted me, if he was personally performing those duties as such, then he very well knows which entities, and who serves them, continuously pull the plug on said developments. To the point of the team drawing from the pool of church goers, establishing a vibrant downtown bustling with businesses, social establishments, and more would absolutely yield far greater returns than what is currently happening. Also, that demographic is most likely to go to a Jags game regardless - even when they live in the suburbs. 

People with money live/move to the suburbs around Jacksonville because our downtown is underdeveloped as it is. Sad to see how we are wasting prime property and real estate, that other places would kill to have, over some nonsensical shenanigans. Our city (and team) would benefit immensely from such progress, both in social and economical terms, currently and for our future.

---

If we lose the Jags, Jacksonville will die. Do what we can top keep them.

Lol, that's a little extreme. The NFL isn't THAT important.

With the way our city and downtown is currently setup, it actually is.

Also, what would you do if you didn't have the Jags to bicker at on Sundays? 

---