Here is a recent article from the Times-Union explaining how the city is essentially giving con free money. No need to repay, no collateral.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/...tZO_jaL6v8

Nested way at the bottom of the article, as an afterthought, the main reason why the city is having such a hard time getting this land developed.

The environmental remediation work for Lot J is projected to take 3 years, optimistically. Similar to the shipyards, which also still have years and years of remediation ahead of them.

I believe lot J is already city property. I don't know if the shipyards are.

Just my opinion, a smarter City would just put up the money to dig out all the bad soil and put in new good soil, and then sell the remediated land for the best price they can get.

they would probably spend more money cleaning the land up, than they would get selling it at the end.  But it might be worth it, if it increases property values and therefore tax receipts from adjacent properties.  A lot of those properties also need environmental remediation. But the private sector might be willing to do that remediation themselves, if the property value increases enough.  the Jacksonville taxpayer should want to see the city trying to kick off that type of chain reaction, but doing it just as a giveaway to one set of billionaires makes no sense at all.

It's the same with Berkman Plaza, the city should just bite the bullet and rehab that land then sell it off. The remediation isn't in the soil, it's in the concrete structure that needs to be cleared. Once that's done the riverfront there could be developed. But you have to remember that this burg is run by halfwits, race baiters, con men, and the First Church, so it will always be 1986 in downtown Jacksonville.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Here is a recent article from the Times-Union explaining how the city is essentially giving con free money. No need to repay, no collateral.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/...tZO_jaL6v8

Nested way at the bottom of the article, as an afterthought, the main reason why the city is having such a hard time getting this land developed.

The environmental remediation work for Lot J is projected to take 3 years, optimistically. Similar to the shipyards, which also still have years and years of remediation ahead of them.

I believe lot J is already city property. I don't know if the shipyards are.

Just my opinion, a smarter City would just put up the money to dig out all the bad soil and put in new good soil, and then sell the remediated land for the best price they can get.

they would probably spend more money cleaning the land up, than they would get selling it at the end.  But it might be worth it, if it increases property values and therefore tax receipts from adjacent properties.  A lot of those properties also need environmental remediation. But the private sector might be willing to do that remediation themselves, if the property value increases enough.  the Jacksonville taxpayer should want to see the city trying to kick off that type of chain reaction, but doing it just as a giveaway to one set of billionaires makes no sense at all.

It's the same with Berkman Plaza, the city should just bite the bullet and rehab that land then sell it off. The remediation isn't in the soil, it's in the concrete structure that needs to be cleared. Once that's done the riverfront there could be developed. But you have to remember that this burg is run by halfwits, race baiters, con men, and the First Church, so it will always be 1986 in downtown Jacksonville.

The city doesn't own that.  They can condemn the structure, but the land under it would still be owned by the developers.  Then the city would have to condemn the land, that's a separate procedure. I believe those developers are still on the hook for all the unsettled lawsuits related to the injury and death that took place.  I'm not sure. But I imagine it would be hard for them to figure out what "just compensation" would be until the lawsuits are settled.

The environmental regulations make good sense to me.  Stuff's either in the soil or not, it's safe to build on or not.  The wrongful death stuff, who knows.  I think we all wish the wheels of justice would move faster, and I don't think any of us know how to make it so.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Why doesn't that land qualify for Superfund money to remediate it and alleviate some of the cost?

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Why doesn't that land qualify for Superfund money to remediate it and alleviate some of the cost?

The Shipyards do.  At least parts of them do.  It hasn't been enough.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

These tweets regarding the Lot J meeting are something:

“This afternoon’s council meeting was supposed to serve as a bridge to get this deal approved by year’s end. Instead, it revealed that some crucial votes are still up in the air. In response, the Jaguars played the leaving-Jacksonville card.”

“ Lamping and Harden argue the Jaguars owner Shad Khan is taking a risk, too, with more than $200 million in private capital investment. Lamping said the Jaguars have been "a free agent team" since he purchased the team in 2012.”

“ Jaguars attorney/lobbyist Paul Harden: “Don’t you think for one minute people haven’t encouraged (Khan)” to look at former NFL cities like St. Louis. “He likes Jacksonville,” Harden said.”

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Yeah it sounded like the thinly veiled threat of leaving Jax if they don't get what they want was lifted some tonight. Not good.

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These tweets regarding the Lot J meeting are something:

“This afternoon’s council meeting was supposed to serve as a bridge to get this deal approved by year’s end. Instead, it revealed that some crucial votes are still up in the air. In response, the Jaguars played the leaving-Jacksonville card.”

“ Lamping and Harden argue the Jaguars owner Shad Khan is taking a risk, too, with more than $200 million in private capital investment. Lamping said the Jaguars have been "a free agent team" since he purchased the team in 2012.”

“ Jaguars attorney/lobbyist Paul Harden: “Don’t you think for one minute people haven’t encouraged (Khan)” to look at former NFL cities like St. Louis. “He likes Jacksonville,” Harden said.”

St Louis is interesting. They built their stadium the same time Jax built theirs. Jax's stadium is surrounded by vast affordable parking so tailgating is easy.  St Louis put their dome surrounded by other existing buildings, minimal opportunity to tailgate.  And those hotels and churches and warehouses didn't want to become any kind of entertainment district anyhow.
The city of st louis tried to get ownership to stay and offered them a riverfront stadium, on a much larger piece of open land that they could do what they wanted with - entertainment district, tailgating, both, whatever.
But, just like Jax, if you see a piece of centrally located riverfront property that no one has built anything on, there's probably a reason.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I know this is getting a little outside the realm of football, but I think the lot J development would be good for the city in the long-term. Having a focal point for some new growth downtown could do wonders for the city over the next 10-20 years.

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I know this is getting a little outside the realm of football, but I think the lot J development would be good for the city in the long-term. Having a focal point for some new growth downtown could do wonders for the city over the next 10-20 years.

Me too. I hope a deal can be worked out.

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I know this is getting a little outside the realm of football, but I think the lot J development would be good for the city in the long-term. Having a focal point for some new growth downtown could do wonders for the city over the next 10-20 years.

I know this is getting a little outside the realm of football, but I think the lot J development would be good for the city in the long-term. Having a focal point for some new growth downtown could do wonders for the city over the next 10-20 years.

Me too. I hope a deal can be worked out.

The true long-term success of something like Lot J is making downtown a more viable place to live. Jacksonville is just too spread out for people to just "wander down to Lot J" for the evening. It has to be more than the annual aerial shot of the Florida/Georgia game that people forget about when they leave. They have to create something there that draws families down there. I know an aquarium was mentioned at some point. That would be cool.

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I know this is getting a little outside the realm of football, but I think the lot J development would be good for the city in the long-term. Having a focal point for some new growth downtown could do wonders for the city over the next 10-20 years.

Me too. I hope a deal can be worked out.

I think the problem is they are going about this the wrong way. This really needs to be a 10 year plan that includes stadium upgrades and a sun shade, lease extension, and more. Originally they may have tried to include other stuff but I thought for some reason they split it out from the other things. If the city is spending this money, they need to know it will be used and will meet the architectural designs and not end up looking like what they did the last time with the bait and switch. They also need to be assured it will not fail because the team leaves or it terrible and no one wants to go there.

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Downtown redevelopment is an extremely important goal.
But it's foolish to imagine Lot J would be part of that.

People aren't going to "wander down" past a jail and a coffee roasting factory. Those types of buildings are too scary, especially at night.

The stadium is in an industrial area. Heavy commercial and residential construction would be cost prohibitive. It's great for tailgating, which is all most people want to do before the Jags games.

The only thing Jacksonville really needs is a way to improve the experience for the out of towners coming to FL-GA and the Gator Bowl. That doesn't have to be right next to the stadium. That could be in springfield or the South bank or san marco or five points. South bank is probably the best idea considering the hotels and skyway and fountain and ruth's chris are already there. An aquarium could be part of that. A movie theater should be part of that. So should a community theater. And the liquor licenses must flow freely.

But none of that involves the Jaguars. The only thing the Jaguars should care about is getting a shade structure.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Downtown redevelopment is an extremely important goal.
But it's foolish to imagine Lot J would be part of that.

People aren't going to "wander down" past a jail and a coffee roasting factory.  Those types of buildings are too scary, especially at night.

The stadium is in an industrial area.  Heavy commercial and residential construction would be cost prohibitive.  It's great for tailgating, which is all most people want to do before the Jags games.

LOL.  Though it pains me greatly to admit it, in this instance, you are correct.  The property surrounding the stadium is a detriment to development, not an asset.  Putting money into Lot J is just putting lipstick on a pig.  

It's 1.3 miles to The Main Street Bridge, with nothing very attractive in between.  The money would be far better utilized in the area of about 1/2 mile radius around The Landing, which is where "downtown" actually is.

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Downtown redevelopment is an extremely important goal.
But it's foolish to imagine Lot J would be part of that.

People aren't going to "wander down" past a jail and a coffee roasting factory.  Those types of buildings are too scary, especially at night.

The stadium is in an industrial area.  Heavy commercial and residential construction would be cost prohibitive.  It's great for tailgating, which is all most people want to do before the Jags games.

LOL.  Though it pains me greatly to admit it, in this instance, you are correct.  The property surrounding the stadium is a detriment to development, not an asset.  Putting money into Lot J is just putting lipstick on a pig.  

It's 1.3 miles to The Main Street Bridge, with nothing very attractive in between.  The money would be far better utilized in the area of about 1/2 mile radius around The Landing, which is where "downtown" actually is.

While a larger initial investment, the money would be far better utilized building a completely new appropriately sized stadium in a different area of town where developers would actually be encouraged to develop without greasy politicians lining their pockets.

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LOL.  Though it pains me greatly to admit it, in this instance, you are correct.  The property surrounding the stadium is a detriment to development, not an asset.  Putting money into Lot J is just putting lipstick on a pig.  

It's 1.3 miles to The Main Street Bridge, with nothing very attractive in between.  The money would be far better utilized in the area of about 1/2 mile radius around The Landing, which is where "downtown" actually is.

While a larger initial investment, the money would be far better utilized building a completely new appropriately sized stadium in a different area of town where developers would actually be encouraged to develop without greasy politicians lining their pockets.

Where?  There's no room out here at the beach (unless we drop it in Hannah Park).  Regency Mall???  

Southside would be nice and the infrastructure and supporting retail/dining is already there, but finding the right tract of land could be a problem.

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

I aways thought Bay St had the most potential down there. In the mid 2000s I thought it was gonna happen but it never did. I guess thats what the Shipyard project is looking to change

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Downtown redevelopment is an extremely important goal.
But it's foolish to imagine Lot J would be part of that.

People aren't going to "wander down" past a jail and a coffee roasting factory.  Those types of buildings are too scary, especially at night.

The stadium is in an industrial area.  Heavy commercial and residential construction would be cost prohibitive.  It's great for tailgating, which is all most people want to do before the Jags games.

LOL.  Though it pains me greatly to admit it, in this instance, you are correct.  The property surrounding the stadium is a detriment to development, not an asset.  Putting money into Lot J is just putting lipstick on a pig.  

It's 1.3 miles to The Main Street Bridge, with nothing very attractive in between.  The money would be far better utilized in the area of about 1/2 mile radius around The Landing, which is where "downtown" actually is.

The first time always hurts a little. It'll feel better and better with practice.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

LOL.  Though it pains me greatly to admit it, in this instance, you are correct.  The property surrounding the stadium is a detriment to development, not an asset.  Putting money into Lot J is just putting lipstick on a pig.  

It's 1.3 miles to The Main Street Bridge, with nothing very attractive in between.  The money would be far better utilized in the area of about 1/2 mile radius around The Landing, which is where "downtown" actually is.

The first time always hurts a little.  It'll feel better and better with practice.

That's okay, I don't expect it to become a frequent occurrence.  Statistically I probably had a better chance of winning Powerball.

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

There is also the secondary components of this. That Kahn and the city want whatever stadium/redevelopment to make Jacksonville considered for things like the NFL draft, regional combines, and Super bowl rotation.

I recognize the hotel situation and sprawling Jacksonville landscape caused the entire national media and NFL to sour on Jacksonville for any consideration in the future. But that has to be at least a long term goal of any full scale stadium redo + Lot J development or a new stadium elsewhere.

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There is also the secondary components of this. That Kahn and the city want whatever stadium/redevelopment to make Jacksonville considered for things like the NFL draft, regional combines, and Super bowl rotation.

I recognize the hotel situation and sprawling Jacksonville landscape caused the entire national media and NFL to sour on Jacksonville for any consideration in the future. But that has to be at least a long term goal of any full scale stadium redo + Lot J development or a new stadium elsewhere.

I think it is a tough feat to convince developers and large chains to build more hotels for occasional events. I think we should embrace that we are a small market city and do it well.

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