Where are the long term studies on humans? Have those? Looking for stuff longer than 6 months.

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Where are the long term studies on humans? Have those? Looking for stuff longer than 6 months.

Here's a page full of stuff from UM.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/healthblog....cide%3famp

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You have internet. Do you're own research. What Bunnie and I both said it still true.

I've done mine, and got my first dose last week. I'm curious about the folks who are refusing who seem unable to justify the decision with anything more than feelings. I've spoken to several dozen and still havent heard a legitimate, fact and science based reason, so you arent alone by any means.

I've mentioned this before, maybe in another thread or further back in this one. I'm not getting it because I have nasty reactions to vaccines. Always have. The only time I've ever had flu shots is when I was in the Army and only because it was required. 

Scientifically I have no idea why I react to vaccines but logic and not wanting to ever feel that way again tells me I should stay away from them. Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. You know what I'm saying? I

Everyone has their reasons, many with no scientific basis. You don't have to like it but you don't have to badger them to death either. No one here has anything to justify to you or to me or to anyone else on this board.

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I've done mine, and got my first dose last week. I'm curious about the folks who are refusing who seem unable to justify the decision with anything more than feelings. I've spoken to several dozen and still havent heard a legitimate, fact and science based reason, so you arent alone by any means.

I've mentioned this before, maybe in another thread or further back in this one. I'm not getting it because I have nasty reactions to vaccines. Always have. The only time I've ever had flu shots is when I was in the Army and only because it was required. 

Scientifically I have no idea why I react to vaccines but logic and not wanting to ever feel that way again tells me I should stay away from them. Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. You know what I'm saying? I

Everyone has their reasons, many with no scientific basis. You don't have to like it but you don't have to badger them to death either. No one here has anything to justify to you or to me or to anyone else on this board.

As I said to Bender, your history is a legit reason to wait it out. BUT, you can't imagine how many otherwise bright people aren't getting it because it's the Mark of the Beast, because Bill Gates wants to sterilize everyone, or because China is going to copyright your DNA.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I've mentioned this before, maybe in another thread or further back in this one. I'm not getting it because I have nasty reactions to vaccines. Always have. The only time I've ever had flu shots is when I was in the Army and only because it was required. 

Scientifically I have no idea why I react to vaccines but logic and not wanting to ever feel that way again tells me I should stay away from them. Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. You know what I'm saying? I

Everyone has their reasons, many with no scientific basis. You don't have to like it but you don't have to badger them to death either. No one here has anything to justify to you or to me or to anyone else on this board.

As I said to Bender, your history is a legit reason to wait it out. BUT, you can't imagine how many otherwise bright people aren't getting it because it's the Mark of the Beast, because Bill Gates wants to sterilize everyone, or because China is going to copyright your DNA.

That's on them. People are going to believe what they want to believe. I don't believe in conspiracies or coincidences or any of that.

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As I said to Bender, your history is a legit reason to wait it out. BUT, you can't imagine how many otherwise bright people aren't getting it because it's the Mark of the Beast, because Bill Gates wants to sterilize everyone, or because China is going to copyright your DNA.

That's on them. People are going to believe what they want to believe. I don't believe in conspiracies or coincidences or any of that.

Yeah, my issues are horrible allergies. I’m not worried about Bill Gates or the Chinese.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Common sense is not medical science, and SARS vaccines have been in development since the last outbreak nearly 15 years ago.

So, again, which step specifically did they omit? No "feelings", or "common sense", I wanna know what you know that I don't.

I don’t think it’s a case of her knowing something you don’t know. It’s more like we are so accustomed to being told it takes years and years to get this stuff tested then approved that even with some regulations being sped up, it seems like it was rushed. Look how many medications end up doing harm even after the years of testing they were put through. You’ve got to expect people to be a little skeptical.

Good post, BB4.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

Bro, your own article calls into question exactly what I said:

Long-term problems: No one has had the vaccine in their body for more than eight months (as of late December 2020), so the honest answer is we don’t know yet if these vaccines cause long-term problems. Only time and accurate tracking will tell for sure; scientists have to look for unusual patterns of disease in groups of vaccinated people.

That's all the reason one needs. I don't know why people are so confident in science. It's a fact these companies often underreport side effects and use shady math to mislead about efficacy. They can't be sued. Also, they do a terrible job historically of tracking vaccine reactions once it's introduced to the public. 

If this disease was dropping people like flies, you take the risk. However, imo, no one should be taking this vaccine who is not in a high risk demographic for covid. They have studied mRNA for a long time, but we don't know the long term effects on humans, and we are just now seeing a massive roll out. If you can wait, that's the smarter decision.

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I don’t think it’s a case of her knowing something you don’t know. It’s more like we are so accustomed to being told it takes years and years to get this stuff tested then approved that even with some regulations being sped up, it seems like it was rushed. Look how many medications end up doing harm even after the years of testing they were put through. You’ve got to expect people to be a little skeptical.

Good post, BB4.

Those are only concerns if you conflate medications and vaccinations, but they aren't the same thing.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Bro, your own article calls into question exactly what I said:

Long-term problems: No one has had the vaccine in their body for more than eight months (as of late December 2020), so the honest answer is we don’t know yet if these vaccines cause long-term problems. Only time and accurate tracking will tell for sure; scientists have to look for unusual patterns of disease in groups of vaccinated people.

That's all the reason one needs. I don't know why people are so confident in science. It's a fact these companies often underreport side effects and use shady math to mislead about efficacy. They can't be sued. Also, they do a terrible job historically of tracking vaccine reactions once it's introduced to the public. 

If this disease was dropping people like flies, you take the risk. However, imo, no one should be taking this vaccine who is not in a high risk demographic for covid. They have studied mRNA for a long time, but we don't know the long term effects on humans, and we are just now seeing a massive roll out. If you can wait, that's the smarter decision.

I'm sympathetic to that fear though I don't share it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's not a fear; it's a rationale. If I am in a bracket that has a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying to Covid, and I know the body's natural immune response is superior to vaccinations (in all known instances), why should I take a vaccine? Then you tack on the lack of observation of long term effects and a known history of companies underreporting side effects, it's common sense to abstain until you get in a higher risk bracket. All rewards should outweigh the risks, and it just doesn't in this case. Not only that, it bothers me when I see peer pressure to go against common sense. The rolling out of this vaccine is just another reactionary measure brought on by a society that doesn't actually think about anything. I am stoked it's available for those with a higher risk (and I think they should take it), but for the majority of society, we should just be resuming our lives and getting sick. Just to add fuel to the fire, we don't know if a vaccinated person can still transmit the disease and we don't know how long it will keep us immunized. Glad you're not afraid, but, to me, it has nothing to do with fear.

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3,644 people died from Covid yesterday.

Honestly and tragically I think covid is the new flu. A super flu of sorts. It is mutating just as the regular cold and flu does which means it will not go away. Vaccines might protect against it somewhat same as regular flu shots may protect against the flu, but nothing is 100%. 

Unless I'm getting something mixed up I understand these vaccines are supposed to protect against all future versions but today I saw a headline that said the vaccine doesn't mean we can go back to pre-covid times. That being said, they must not have much confidence in the vaccines (yet), or it will not protect against future versions. I was not able to read the story behind the headline so I'm not sure who said it and the context in which it was written.

I completely agree that this is the new flu and this virus will continue to evolve as there are new strains being found. I also agree that unfortunately this virus is evolving so fast that research and development for an up to date vaccine will not be 100% effective because of the lag time. 

There is just so much still unknown on how the virus will permanently effect people who were diagnosed, and became symptom free and how the vaccine will attack the virus.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

So...no hard info, just gut feelings then.

To be completely honest im not going to expect the CDC, or FDA to freely admit they took "efficiency measures" to have a covid vaccine readily available so quickly after the pandemic began. I think what we are seeing now are the trial and error basis ie a Florida doctor dying and multiple people having severe side effects after taking the vaccine.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Honestly and tragically I think covid is the new flu. A super flu of sorts. It is mutating just as the regular cold and flu does which means it will not go away. Vaccines might protect against it somewhat same as regular flu shots may protect against the flu, but nothing is 100%. 

Unless I'm getting something mixed up I understand these vaccines are supposed to protect against all future versions but today I saw a headline that said the vaccine doesn't mean we can go back to pre-covid times. That being said, they must not have much confidence in the vaccines (yet), or it will not protect against future versions. I was not able to read the story behind the headline so I'm not sure who said it and the context in which it was written.

I completely agree that this is the new flu and this virus will continue to evolve as there are new strains being found. I also agree that unfortunately this virus is evolving so fast that research and development for an up to date vaccine will not be 100% effective because of the lag time. 

There is just so much still unknown on how the virus will permanently effect people who were diagnosed, and became symptom free and how the vaccine will attack the virus.

No vaccines are 100% effective. Which is the reason as many as can be vaccinated should get it, else we continue to risk those who cannot.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So...no hard info, just gut feelings then.

To be completely honest im not going to expect the CDC, or FDA to freely admit they took "efficiency measures" to have a covid vaccine readily available so quickly after the pandemic began. I think what we are seeing now are the trial and error basis ie a Florida doctor dying and multiple people having severe side effects after taking the vaccine.

1. The doctor's death has not yet been linked to the vaccine though I expect it will. 1 in 5,000,000 is about right for extreme adverse events with most other vaccines.

2. 21 cases of anaphylaxis over the first 1.8 million doses is, again, consistent with the norms for vaccines. That's why people have to consider the potential allergic reactions before they get the shot. And that's who gets protected most by herd immunity, those who cannot get it.

3. Folks don't seem to understand that the new vaccine science is going to permit vaccines to be developed almost immediately after the virus is mapped and the spike protein identified. This science was already under development before the first SARS outbreak 20 years ago and we are benefitting feom the progress made since then. It's a good time to be alive!

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Honestly and tragically I think covid is the new flu. A super flu of sorts. It is mutating just as the regular cold and flu does which means it will not go away. Vaccines might protect against it somewhat same as regular flu shots may protect against the flu, but nothing is 100%. 

Unless I'm getting something mixed up I understand these vaccines are supposed to protect against all future versions but today I saw a headline that said the vaccine doesn't mean we can go back to pre-covid times. That being said, they must not have much confidence in the vaccines (yet), or it will not protect against future versions. I was not able to read the story behind the headline so I'm not sure who said it and the context in which it was written.

I completely agree that this is the new flu and this virus will continue to evolve as there are new strains being found. I also agree that unfortunately this virus is evolving so fast that research and development for an up to date vaccine will not be 100% effective because of the lag time. 

There is just so much still unknown on how the virus will permanently effect people who were diagnosed, and became symptom free and how the vaccine will attack the virus.

vaccines don't "attack" viruses.

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To be completely honest im not going to expect the CDC, or FDA to freely admit they took "efficiency measures" to have a covid vaccine readily available so quickly after the pandemic began. I think what we are seeing now are the trial and error basis ie a Florida doctor dying and multiple people having severe side effects after taking the vaccine.

1. The doctor's death has not yet been linked to the vaccine though I expect it will. 1 in 5,000,000 is about right for extreme adverse events with most other vaccines.

2. 21 cases of anaphylaxis over the first 1.8 million doses is, again, consistent with the norms for vaccines. That's why people have to consider the potential allergic reactions before they get the shot. And that's who gets protected most by herd immunity, those who cannot get it.

3. Folks don't seem to understand that the new vaccine science is going to permit vaccines to be developed almost immediately after the virus is mapped and the spike protein identified. This science was already under development before the first SARS outbreak 20 years ago and we are benefitting feom the progress made since then. It's a good time to be alive!

Howd the vaccine from the First SARS work out?

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I completely agree that this is the new flu and this virus will continue to evolve as there are new strains being found. I also agree that unfortunately this virus is evolving so fast that research and development for an up to date vaccine will not be 100% effective because of the lag time. 

There is just so much still unknown on how the virus will permanently effect people who were diagnosed, and became symptom free and how the vaccine will attack the virus.

vaccines don't "attack" viruses.

---

1. The doctor's death has not yet been linked to the vaccine though I expect it will. 1 in 5,000,000 is about right for extreme adverse events with most other vaccines.

2. 21 cases of anaphylaxis over the first 1.8 million doses is, again, consistent with the norms for vaccines. That's why people have to consider the potential allergic reactions before they get the shot. And that's who gets protected most by herd immunity, those who cannot get it.

3. Folks don't seem to understand that the new vaccine science is going to permit vaccines to be developed almost immediately after the virus is mapped and the spike protein identified. This science was already under development before the first SARS outbreak 20 years ago and we are benefitting feom the progress made since then. It's a good time to be alive!

Howd the vaccine from the First SARS work out?

It was never successful. Fortunately (or not), the SARS outbreak burned hot and fast lasting just 8 months, so research didn't continue to focus on that particular strain. Only about 8,000 cases were recorded and of those about 10% died. Had we seen SARS on the scale of Covid we'd be looking at 9 million deaths so far.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You have internet. Do you're own research. What Bunnie and I both said it still true.

I've done mine, and got my first dose last week. I'm curious about the folks who are refusing who seem unable to justify the decision with anything more than feelings. I've spoken to several dozen and still havent heard a legitimate, fact and science based reason, so you arent alone by any means.

I'm in line for end of January.

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You have internet. Do you're own research. What Bunnie and I both said it still true.

I've done mine, and got my first dose last week. I'm curious about the folks who are refusing who seem unable to justify the decision with anything more than feelings. I've spoken to several dozen and still havent heard a legitimate, fact and science based reason, so you arent alone by any means.

You're not a senior citizen. How did you get yours so quickly? Is there some poor old guy nursing a knock on his head?

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I've done mine, and got my first dose last week. I'm curious about the folks who are refusing who seem unable to justify the decision with anything more than feelings. I've spoken to several dozen and still havent heard a legitimate, fact and science based reason, so you arent alone by any means.

You're not a senior citizen. How did you get yours so quickly? Is there some poor old guy nursing a knock on his head?

I'm in a high risk category because I work in healthcare and my medical history.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato