So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow otherwise abandon that approach?

Considering the 5 picks after Tlaw were his teammate and then four people that Meyer openly recruited hard 4 years ago...my first assumption is that our board was heavily pared down compared to most teams. I think they probably did take what they think was BAP after that. I just don't think any of them actually were.

So it's inaccuracy by omission?

I'm not sure if I fault Meyer for putting an emphasis on guys he has first hand background information on.

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So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow otherwise abandon that approach?

I think the critics' problem with the draft is that the Jaguars did not draft for need.  A lot of the criticism is based on not spending high picks on positions the critics think we needed.  A lot of the critics would have drafted the best offensive lineman available at pick 25, for example.  No matter what.  They would have put their perceived need to replace our offensive tackles above any other consideration.  I think that's one of the main reasons for the criticism.

I can understand the criticism based on need.  That's not what I'm asking about, though I wanted to explore his logic above.  As to the larger initial inquiry. I'm wondering about the lack of defense of the team's draft based upon BAP.

It seems nobody thinks the Jaguars drafted BAP, even though nobody has access to their board.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

https://twitter.com/InsideTheLeague/stat...35589?s=19

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The Etienne pick was 100% a need pick.

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The Etienne pick was 100% a need pick.

Based on what?

We had productivity at RB last year with Robinson.  We already have a good backup in Carlos Hyde.

We're pretty good at WR between Chark, Shenault, Marvin Jones, and Collin Johnson.

Besides, we're a team coming off a 1-15 season. We have a TON of needs. Even assuming RB was a need, why prioritize that need over others on the team?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Considering the 5 picks after Tlaw were his teammate and then four people that Meyer openly recruited hard 4 years ago...my first assumption is that our board was heavily pared down compared to most teams. I think they probably did take what they think was BAP after that. I just don't think any of them actually were.

So it's inaccuracy by omission?

I'm not sure if I fault Meyer for putting an emphasis on guys he has first hand background information on.

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I think the critics' problem with the draft is that the Jaguars did not draft for need.  A lot of the criticism is based on not spending high picks on positions the critics think we needed.  A lot of the critics would have drafted the best offensive lineman available at pick 25, for example.  No matter what.  They would have put their perceived need to replace our offensive tackles above any other consideration.  I think that's one of the main reasons for the criticism.

I can understand the criticism based on need.  That's not what I'm asking about, though I wanted to explore his logic above.  As to the larger initial inquiry. I'm wondering about the lack of defense of the team's draft based upon BAP.

It seems nobody thinks the Jaguars drafted BAP, even though nobody has access to their board.

I think having background information is the most important thing. He has always had the opportunity to meet the guy and fully recruit and research everything about the players he brings in. Even with all that work, some guys still won't pan out like at Florida or Ohio St.

He even talked about the inability to do that with free agency, and how he thought the process is bad. He strikes me as the kind of guy who wants to look recruit in the guy eyes, shake his hand, and see if he think he will be warrior or just a guy.

Given the COVID restrictions on the draft analysis process and so many players with a variety or risks (opting out, injury, low ceiling, limited tape, limited competition, no real combine, etc.); he went with what he knows. Balke and he looked primarily at players he had the chance to look at closely and hands on as a college recruiter and went from there.

Questions will be:
1. Does UM's eye for talent and mentality work for the NFL like it did in college?
2. How does he and the staff put players in position to succeed? (Nearly every NFL player has a weakness or two. The productive ones on good teams are put in positions to allow their strengths shine through and not have their weaknesses exposed. I know we haven't seen this in Jax in a long while.)
3. How do they translate his experience with looking this closely at college players in 1-2 years for the classes he was not able to recruit?

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Considering the 5 picks after Tlaw were his teammate and then four people that Meyer openly recruited hard 4 years ago...my first assumption is that our board was heavily pared down compared to most teams. I think they probably did take what they think was BAP after that. I just don't think any of them actually were.

So it's inaccuracy by omission?

I'm not sure if I fault Meyer for putting an emphasis on guys he has first hand background information on.

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I think the critics' problem with the draft is that the Jaguars did not draft for need.  A lot of the criticism is based on not spending high picks on positions the critics think we needed.  A lot of the critics would have drafted the best offensive lineman available at pick 25, for example.  No matter what.  They would have put their perceived need to replace our offensive tackles above any other consideration.  I think that's one of the main reasons for the criticism.

I can understand the criticism based on need.  That's not what I'm asking about, though I wanted to explore his logic above.  As to the larger initial inquiry. I'm wondering about the lack of defense of the team's draft based upon BAP.

It seems nobody thinks the Jaguars drafted BAP, even though nobody has access to their board.

Unless it’s a generational type RB, no RB will ever be in my top 25 overall players. That’s just me.

The only RB that would be inside my top 25 as a prospect in the last few years is Barkley. I just don’t value the position that much in terms of investing high draft capital. I love having a good running game but I don’t think you need to invest high draft picks to a RB in order to have that.

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A draft strategy isn't a suicide pact. They don't need to be utterly consistent with a strategy to win a prize. Additionally, a draft decision isn't made in a vacuum. Who will be available on waivers? Who can be traded for? Do we need to draft that or can we pick it up another way? TL being first year will lead a run-heavy offense, perhaps? Maybe he won't start slinging it until his second season so running more important offensively than catching.

Meyer has been a straight shooter with his public guidance. "Defense first" he says. And FA is all defense. "I'm happy with where the o-line is at" he says. And o-line almost gets less player movement attention than special teams. We don't know why he's deciding what he's deciding, but it's pretty clear what the decision is when he tells us. What he hasn't announced are all the other decisions he's making that execute these vaguest of directional statements. So, being overly precise is a waste of emotional effort.

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The Etienne pick was 100% a need pick.

Based on what?

Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

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https://twitter.com/InsideTheLeague/stat...35589?s=19

Now this is interesting.  He drafts heavily into players he recruited and then as soon as the draft is done he dumps the entire scouting organisation.  It seems pretty certain that the scouting team was not feeding into his plan the way he wanted.  And I guess it would have been too disruptive to dump them before the draft (and even a stopped clock is right twice a day so keep them around through the draft in case they hit a home run).

I wonder if he starts picking the college scouting ranks apart.

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Based on what?

Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

That’s what made him passing on JOK numerous times odd. JOK is the type of speed LB that would be great to have on this on team and yet he was passed over multiple times by Urban.

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One of the things I think needs to be factored in, obviously you hope every draft pick works out but that's not the reality. Theres so many reasons why a player may not reach the potential they showed they could.

Our problem being 1-15 with a roster that didnt need to tank, we HAVE to hit on every pick. We cant make mistakes or miss guys, that's been the history of our drafting. The more guys you miss on, the more drafts and FA you need to fix it. You look at someone like the Bucs taking Trask which is a complete gamble they can afford to lose on.

Thats the massive problem I see we have.

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Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

That’s what made him passing on JOK numerous times odd. JOK is the type of speed LB that would be great to have on this on team and yet he was passed over multiple times by Urban.

JOK is underrsized for a 3-4 defense, thats likely why us and every other team passed on him.  I think he is a good fit for the Browns defense though

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Based on what?

Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

Thats the type of thing you take into account when ranking players.  Toney is an electric player and I think will be damn good for the Giants.  Most Giants fans love the pick

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Based on what?

Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

I think Etienne was the best player available at 25.  Maybe Urban Meyer agrees with me.

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Whadda know? Another NFL pundit that loves our draft..

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-...scratching

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Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

I think Etienne was the best player available at 25.  Maybe Urban Meyer agrees with me.

Buffalo wanted to trade up for him but could never strike a deal

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https://twitter.com/InsideTheLeague/stat...35589?s=19

Now this is interesting.  He drafts heavily into players he recruited and then as soon as the draft is done he dumps the entire scouting organisation.  It seems pretty certain that the scouting team was not feeding into his plan the way he wanted.  And I guess it would have been too disruptive to dump them before the draft (and even a stopped clock is right twice a day so keep them around through the draft in case they hit a home run).

I wonder if he starts picking the college scouting ranks apart.

Actually this sort of thing is common with new administrations/management structures.  They can't fire the scouts as soon as they arrive, because they have all of the information regarding the upcoming draft prospects.  If they fired them at the time, they'd be drafting blind.  They wait until after the draft them cut them loose. 

Not necessarily a UM thing.

More like Baalke wanting to get his guys in there.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Whadda know? Another NFL pundit that loves our draft..

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-...scratching

Pffft.  He doesn't know half as much as our local experts.

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Whadda know? Another NFL pundit that loves our draft..

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-...scratching

Pffft.  He doesn't know half as much as our local experts.

I know, they tell us constantly..

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Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

That’s what made him passing on JOK numerous times odd. JOK is the type of speed LB that would be great to have on this on team and yet he was passed over multiple times by Urban.

First off, JOK had a medical condition that pushed him down.  Just found out about it.

Secondly, JOK would be a poor scheme fit for us unless you moved him to S.  If we're running a 3-4 and he played LB, he'd have to take on OL weighing 215-222 lbs.  No way he holds up to that.  He wouldn't have the length to be an edge rusher and certainly not the bulk to take on guards.

No surprise at all the team passed on him.

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Based on what?

Based on the only thing Meyer ever saying we need...speed on offense. He was going to make a bad pick of Toney to fill that need and then he did make a bad pick with Etienne to fill that need. Although it usually is, need doesn't have to be position based. Meyer was hellbent on adding speed to the offense at 25 one way or another, and he was willing to eschew many better players at more valuable positions to get that speed. That's drafting for need to me.

Drafting a player with a trait that fits your overall team paradigm (i.e. speed) is NOT the same thing as drafting for positional need.  He also wanted more speed on defense.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Now this is interesting.  He drafts heavily into players he recruited and then as soon as the draft is done he dumps the entire scouting organisation.  It seems pretty certain that the scouting team was not feeding into his plan the way he wanted.  And I guess it would have been too disruptive to dump them before the draft (and even a stopped clock is right twice a day so keep them around through the draft in case they hit a home run).

I wonder if he starts picking the college scouting ranks apart.

Actually this sort of thing is common with new administrations/management structures.  They can't fire the scouts as soon as they arrive, because they have all of the information regarding the upcoming draft prospects.  If they fired them at the time, they'd be drafting blind.  They wait until after the draft them cut them loose. 

Not necessarily a UM thing.

More like Baalke wanting to get his guys in there.

Not only that, but this fits with the UM message from his hiring that they needed to step up all the facilities and supporting administration/people. They just had to wait until the draft finished like OzJohnnie said.

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