$9.8m -- franchise tag for OL in 2013

 

Heck, let him go for 2 years and pick him back up in 2015 ---

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Uh....you don't LET players like Monroe with value "walk for nothing" which is essentially what Caldwell did here considering the return - you use some saavy and get the highest return possible, even if that means holding on to the playera little longer than you want to. If it meant franchising Monroe for a little bit, then thats what it takes....

 

You don't just sell an asset at much less than its worth by taking the first inquiry that comes down the pike. 

 

I'd LOVE to buy a house off of Caldwell!!!! :yes:

 

Well, you can argue for 50 pages over whether we got enough in the trade.   There's no way to prove or disprove that.   So go ahead, you're the master of the 50 page argument.   Go to it.  

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Honestly, my biggest fear is that we find out our offensive line coaches over the past few years really sucked.

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LMAO LTotF. True fans everywhere. Like that has actually decided any games in the history of the NFL. Try harder guys. Joker will only disappoint. Then what's the next idea. Spend another 1st rounder? Enough. You're better off getting decent UDFA or FA OL players if you're talent evaluator is good enough.

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A True Fan ladies and gentlemen:

Ramsey for Grier straight up

ESPN says multiple 3rd day draft picks for Monroe. That is just sad.

 

Gene Smith was able to land a 5th rounder for Mike Thomas.... (let that one sink in for a minute!!!!!)

 

and this is the best Caldwell could do for a top 10 talent that plays a premium position...

 

You could probably buy a house on prime oceanfront land off of Caldwell for $60K.....as long as you were one of the first ones to offer. 

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They spent most of their money on Flacco ($150m) and they have a lot more talent so they have a lot more decisions to make -- kind of like the Steelers letting Mike Wallace, Mendenhall and others go.  Heck, the Steelers were hurting so bad, they let their serviceable backup center go and now Pouncey is out for the year.

 

Ravens may wiggle around the cap but with Oher and others it will be tough.

The ravens didn't just trade away picks to rent the guy. I promise you their intentions are to keep him.

 

I'm sure the ravens are well aware of their cap situations. They will have other people lined up to be expendable.

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Honestly, my biggest fear is that we find out our offensive line coaches over the past few years really sucked.

 

Well, they have. Definitely with the last one......and the current one seems to have made the existing players regress, so...

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I don't disagree that Joeckel has the higher ceiling. But you had two good tackles in place. Now we are right back to square one at right tackle. Cam Bradfield is god awful.

 

Obviously maybe they tried this. But I have to think Caldwell knew Monroe was not in his long tem plans. Why not just get it over with and trade him after drafting Joeckel and sign a Eric Winston type for a one year deal. Just get it over with. Waiting did nothing but throw another monkey wrench into an already awful season.

 

 

Exactly!!!!

 

And at that point, they probably would have got more for Monroe. Winston would have been a solid "bridge" ORT who had experience in the ZBS, too....

 

I dunno.....the whole thing just reaks of mismanaged

 

 

I think it might have actually taken these first four games for the reality of how void of talent the Jags really are to set in for them. They could not believe that it was possible for a NFL team to be that bad.

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

Gene Smith was able to land a 5th rounder for Mike Thomas....


and this is the best Caldwell could do for a top 10 talent that plays a premium position...


You could probably buy a house on prime oceanfront land off of Caldwell for $60K.....as long as you were one of the first ones to offer.

See, he's not top ten talent.

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<a target="_blank" href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/chuckd132132/p1_manning_all_200.jpg" target="_blank">VIEW IMAGE</a>

Good Morning everyone.  First let me say that I am cautiously observant of the new regime.  I neither have faith or distrust I am just objectively waiting to see how things pan out.  I don't have a bone to pick either way I am just making observations as they come along. 

 

 

From the pages i have read there is no official word on the compensation for the above and entitled trade so i leave out that caveat but if the reports are true that we are talking about 2-3 third day selections in this years upcoming draft i am severely disappointed in that return.  Eugene Monroe is a top half of the league LT (premium position) in the prime of his career (26 years old.)  That screams multiple second day picks if not a late first all things being equal.

 

I fully understand the fact that the team probably wasn't looking to resign him.  At the same time with my baseline understanding of the compensatory pick system leads me to believe that his signing bonus alone for a player at his position and his age would have garnered a late 2015 3rd Rd. pick, not to mention that there would have probably been at least one or two teams interested if we tried to franchise and trade him. 

 

I understand that we are building for the future.  I understand that its cool to think to yourself that we will probably have about 12 draft picks next year (7 base, one from trade Mike Thomas, 2 Compensatory picks (possibly third rounders because cox got paid and D-Smith is balling) and the picks from this trade) but that doesn't mean anything if those picks are concentraed on the third day of the draft.  I think that it would have been more in line with that train of thought to ask for a 2 + 3 in 2015 to still maintain the value of the player.  That's how the pats got a 1st for richard Seymour at the end of his career. 

 

I think that it probably hurt the Monroe's Draft stock that the entire O-line probably looks bad on tape.  So when he was on the phone with the premier exec of our generation im sure that ozzie pointed out the fact that Right now Monroe wasn't playing at the highest level and what was probably moderate to high interest in Monroe as a trade consideration at the beginning of the season from other potential suitors probably wained and its most likely that ozzie was the last person on the phone.  I understand that, but at the same time i think that we drastically undervalued a key asset.  In totality there is about 1 chance in 25 that we will ever find a player of Monroe caliber on the third day of the draft and from their perspective there's about a 1 in 25 chance that the late round picks they ever gave up would have a player like Monroe Left on the board so I think that It's hard to argue that the Ravens fleeced us for Monroe...  But hey it could be worse.  They could have fleeced us for Derrick Harvey LOL...  hey wait...  Can we just stop calling these people?

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The ravens didn't just trade away picks to rent the guy. I promise you their intentions are to keep him.

 

I'm sure the ravens are well aware of their cap situations. They will have other people lined up to be expendable.

 

If you will notice throughout the league, teams that have signed thier franchise QB to huge contracts have suffered in other areas midway through their contracts.   The Giants and Steelers are good examples and the Patriots are making sacrifices as well even though it doesn't show because they had an easy schedule and Brady is top notch.  Baltimore can't keep everyone.  Perhaps we can find another offensive tackle that actually had good coaching in the past.

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MJD is up next.

 

Yes!

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Good Morning everyone.  First let me say that I am cautiously observant of the new regime.  I neither have faith or distrust I am just objectively waiting to see how things pan out.  I don't have a bone to pick either way I am just making observations as they come along. 

 

 

From the pages i have read there is no official word on the compensation for the above and entitled trade so i leave out that caveat but if the reports are true that we are talking about 2-3 third day selections in this years upcoming draft i am severely disappointed in that return.  Eugene Monroe is a top half of the league LT (premium position) in the prime of his career (26 years old.)  That screams multiple second day picks if not a late first all things being equal.

 

I fully understand the fact that the team probably wasn't looking to resign him.  At the same time with my baseline understanding of the compensatory pick system leads me to believe that his signing bonus alone for a player at his position and his age would have garnered a late 2015 3rd Rd. pick, not to mention that there would have probably been at least one or two teams interested if we tried to franchise and trade him. 

 

I understand that we are building for the future.  I understand that its cool to think to yourself that we will probably have about 12 draft picks next year (7 base, one from trade Mike Thomas, 2 Compensatory picks (possibly third rounders because cox got paid and D-Smith is balling) and the picks from this trade) but that doesn't mean anything if those picks are concentraed on the third day of the draft.  I think that it would have been more in line with that train of thought to ask for a 2 + 3 in 2015 to still maintain the value of the player.  That's how the pats got a 1st for richard Seymour at the end of his career. 

 

I think that it probably hurt the Monroe's Draft stock that the entire O-line probably looks bad on tape.  So when he was on the phone with the premier exec of our generation im sure that ozzie pointed out the fact that Right now Monroe wasn't playing at the highest level and what was probably moderate to high interest in Monroe as a trade consideration at the beginning of the season from other potential suitors probably wained and its most likely that ozzie was the last person on the phone.  I understand that, but at the same time i think that we drastically undervalued a key asset.  In totality there is about 1 chance in 25 that we will ever find a player of Monroe caliber on the third day of the draft and from their perspective there's about a 1 in 25 chance that the late round picks they ever gave up would have a player like Monroe Left on the board so I think that It's hard to argue that the Ravens fleeced us for Monroe...  But hey it could be worse.  They could have fleeced us for Derrick Harvey LOL...  hey wait...  Can we just stop calling these people?

 

Great post!!

 

Sums it up comprehensively  - even right up to the last line....why even deal with the Ravens???? You know the results aren't pretty when you do...

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REWARDS ARE FORTHCOMING GUYS .... JUST LOOK AT THE PIRATES !!  IT'S ALL WORTH IT !!!

 

If we follow their model, we will be the last ones laughing when we are hosting a playoff game in 2027.

 

Go Jags !!!

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...  But hey it could be worse.  They could have fleeced us for Derrick Harvey LOL...  hey wait...  Can we just stop calling these people?

 

If you look at the picks the Jags gave up in that deal, the trade wasn't the bad part of the deal. It was the player they selected.

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MJD may be next but I think someone needs to get hurt for their team to pull the trigger -- like Ridley or something.

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If you look at the picks the Jags gave up in that deal, the trade wasn't the bad part of the deal. It was the player they selected.

 

In reference to the Harvey pick -- at that time, for what we needed (being 1 or 2 players away) .... I liked that pick.   I even liked selecting Harvey at the time. 

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Where are all the people who said MJD had no value before the Draft? Because he sure as sin doesn't have any now. I wanted him traded before the Draft and got waxed for it by the true fans. What a joke.

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A True Fan ladies and gentlemen:

Ramsey for Grier straight up

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bullseye" data-cid="13713" data-time="1380708175">
<div>
Were the Jaguars some branch of the federal government that just got caught in the shutdown and nobody told me?

 

I figured this trade might be a possibility, even before the team took Joeckel.

 

If the initial reports of 3rd day picks are true, initially I didn't think we got enough for him.

 

But after giving it some thought I realized a few things.

 

1)  I have never been as high on Monroe as many have been here.  It's quite possible a superior talent evaluating GM like Newsome-to say nothing of other average GMs-didn't believe Monroe was elite-thus no elite draft compensation for him.

 

What someone will offer doesn't necessarily reflect the perceived value by the one making the offer. The offer often only reflects the minimum that someone is willing to take. People have made fortunes taking advantage of this disparity.


 

2)  We got, at the highest, a 3rd round pick for Stroud.  Stroud was far better at his position than Monroe ever was at his.  Even adjusting for positional importance, a 3rd round pick would be about the highest you could realistically hope to get for Monroe, given that his level of play at his position never approached Stroud's.

 

Not only did Stroud not play a premium position, but he was also older and coming off two injury plagued seasons. Not really making your case for fair compensation.


 

3)  As bad as it seems, Monroe was basically the only asset on the roster with any real trade value.  MJD has too much mileage, and his injury last year and poor performance this year (which may or may not be attributable to him) wouldn't get much in return.    Marcedes Lewis will likely get even less. They wouldn't trade guys like Joeckel or Cyprien when they are the first class in this GM's tenure.


 

Should you really be trading something unless you feel that it will bring you some sort of upgrade or increased value? Say you come across a new leather couch and your goal is to upgrade your living room by adding more furniture. So you trade the nice relatively new couch that you had as soon as someone offers you two lawn chairs. Have you upgraded or increased value in your living room? You probably should have held out for a recliner and a coffee table. That is kind of how this trade is looking.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

1)  Agreed on this point.  However, you also have to take market demand for the player into question too.  Assume, for the moment that Caldwell is an average rational actor.  He knows that the Jaguars are completely devoid of talent, and the season is lost.  He knows that to turn this team around he would need more picks, the higher the better.  Do you think Baltimore is the only team he called about Monroe?  Assuming he is a rational actor, he tried to maximize the trade value and that's the best offer he got.  In other words, it's not just Baltimore's perceived value for Monroe that's the issue.  It's the market's value for Monroe.

 

2)  Well if you are convinced that Monroe is NOT an elite, but good to average LT, then even accounting for differences in age, health and position, the trade compensation (assuming a 4th and a 5th for Monroe) makes sense.  Monroe is a player that has been benched and inconsistent.  He never came close to making three pro bowls like Stroud.  He never came close to being part of a dominant unit like Stroud was.  Teams typically don't make it a habit of trading high picks for players seen to be average.   Even though Freeman has produced two seasons with over 20 passing TDs in the last three years, so far nobody has traded for him-even teams like ours with desperate needs at QB.

 

3)  If you can prove there were other teams willing to offer more for Monroe, you'd have a point here.  In other words, if you could prove you could get a recliner and coffee table for the couch and he turned it down, then there's a point.  But let's twist the hypothetical slightly.  Suppose the guy you are trading the couch to saw how the couch worked for you.  Suppose he knows you burned cigarette holes in a couple of cushions, a dog or cat scratched it up, and it's actually an odd color that doesn't go with anything else anyone else has.  I submit to you Monroe on film represents that couch with flaws.  That will suppress the market for him and thus the compensation. 

 

While we are on the subject, I remember one of your points in the various debates you and I have had over Gene Smith's draft picks is that his draft classes were not in the primes of their careers and therefore should not be judged harshly until they reached that point.  It's safe to assume 5 years from their drafting, the 2009 draft is in their primes. 

 

None of the 2009 draft class remains on the roster.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Great post!!

 

Sums it up comprehensively  - even right up to the last line....why even deal with the Ravens???? You know the results aren't pretty when you do...

 

Why are people like you so down on this trade?

 

1) You are assumming there would be more trade interest.....if there was we would have continued to shop him.

 

2) The longer he plays on this crappy team the lower the value becomes. Esp since that less time that a team can evaluate that player on their roster for resigning

 

3) If we didn't trade him, you same people would be up in arms about how we didn't get anything for him. (We wouldn't get a compensatory pick until the 2015 draft, also O-Lineman aren't known to net you 3rd round compensatory picks)

 

So.....what's the real problem about this trade?????

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