Pederson was one of the first candidates to be interviewed because he was currently out of the league and at that time you could only interview people without jobs.

There was nothing about him being their top candidate. The fact that it took them 33 days for a 2nd interview says they weren't all that interested, or why wouldn't he be brought back in a lot sooner?

(Emphasis added)

Absolutely right...otherwise why would they risk losing their preferred candidate to another team?

That said, they could end up getting this hire right almost in spite of themselves.

Rumors is Pederson was look warm about the job after the interview and didn't like the idea working with Baalke after what happened in Philly.   Maybe more money in the talks or Khan is willing to give Pederson more power. I guess these things will be discussed tomorrow

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Pederson was one of the first candidates to be interviewed because he was currently out of the league and at that time you could only interview people without jobs.

There was nothing about him being their top candidate. The fact that it took them 33 days for a 2nd interview says they weren't all that interested, or why wouldn't he be brought back in a lot sooner?

(Emphasis added)

Absolutely right...otherwise why would they risk losing their preferred candidate to another team?

That said, they could end up getting this hire right almost in spite of themselves.

Yes.

If they really did like Doug, you fire Baalke and hire him.

Either Doug is actually willing to work with Baalke because no one else wants him to coach or Khan is ready to fire Baalke which…. Again, looks really bad that so many people have said no to Baalke and NOW, this far into the search, they finally do it. Just a dumpster fire.

For the record:

Byron/Wilson > Pederson/Baalke.

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Lmao?  Why anyone other than Byron?  Pederson was the first one that turned them down because of Baalke, allegedly.  It would be idiotic to fire Baalke for first time guy trying to become HC Byron but not for the SB winning HC who was you top guy at the beginning of the search.  Go get the guy you wanted in the first place now if you decide to fire Baalke

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Agreed 100%

Pederson was one of the first candidates to be interviewed because he was currently out of the league and at that time you could only interview people without jobs.

There was nothing about him being their top candidate. The fact that it took them 33 days for a 2nd interview says they weren't all that interested, or why wouldn't he be brought back in a lot sooner?

I really think it's indicative of Khan's lack of ambition. He's lazy. This is why Baalke is here. He hates this process. His history of having overly lengthy patience at a nauseating extent with coaches and his refusal to completely clean house in the front office after a coach gets hung out to dry is a remarkable and sad quality he has at the same time.

That is his nature. That is his approach. He's legitimately leaned on Baalke since Meyer was fired. He's deflated and personally demoralized. That's how I honestly see him. He's still making money. He just doesn't have to care. He can continue to be a pig rolling in his own [BLEEP] in pure ecstacy because it's permitted at this level.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

If you are talking to me, I watched every min of every game including preseason this year. I've learned enough and dont want to see a repeat of this horrendously historically bad offense.  It's not all his fault, but a lot of it was. Hes the play caller and the buck stops with him.

I wasn't. Reading the imbedded quote would tell you that.
I watched every game as well and easily noticed a change for the better once Meyer was removed from the equation.
Not only that, but this year wasn't about wins and losses as it was about developing Trevor. He made many mistakes you'd expect from a rookie, but by and large he was making big strides in his growth that will make him so much more prepared for the future.

I watched every min as well. What I saw was a historically bad offense 90% of the season. I believe we broke the lowest point total in team history after 16 games.

The best offensive and efficient offense we played was week 18 vs the Colts when Bevell was not the OC and not calling plays. Your vision is rlRay Charles level.

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(Emphasis added)

Absolutely right...otherwise why would they risk losing their preferred candidate to another team?

That said, they could end up getting this hire right almost in spite of themselves.

Rumors is Pederson was look warm about the job after the interview and didn't like the idea working with Baalke after what happened in Philly.   Maybe more money in the talks or Khan is willing to give Pederson more power.  I guess these things will be discussed tomorrow

Pedersen is my #1 choice.

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(Emphasis added)

Absolutely right...otherwise why would they risk losing their preferred candidate to another team?

That said, they could end up getting this hire right almost in spite of themselves.

Yes.

If they really did like Doug, you fire Baalke and hire him.

Either Doug is actually willing to work with Baalke because no one else wants him to coach or Khan is ready to fire Baalke which…. Again, looks really bad that so many people have said no to Baalke and NOW, this far into the search, they finally do it. Just a dumpster fire.

For the record:

Byron/Wilson > Pederson/Baalke.

(emphasis added)

It's funny because I addressed your closing point in bold in another thread.

I think Wilson would make a better GM than Caldwell, but I prefer Pederson to leftwich because he has HC experience.

I DO think both Pederson and BL would be good for TL.

So I guess my ultimate reply to you would depend on what you think of the GMs.

To me, the possible difference between Wilson and Caldwell is what might tip the scales in favor of your analysis, but I think I favor the Pederson Caldwell combo.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

This franchise finds new ways to trip over it's own feet at every corner. It really is incredible how they continue to do it when you really sit back and think about it. It's like they're trying to find a new way to 1 up themselves in foolishness every chance they get. It really is something to see, but as fans of this cluster we're forced to be apart of the circus and sadness.

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This franchise finds new ways to trip over it's own feet at every corner. It really is incredible how they continue to do it when you really sit back and think about it. It's like they're trying to find a new way to 1 up themselves in foolishness every chance they get. It really is something to see, but as fans of this cluster we're forced to be apart of the circus and sadness.

Precisely.

You drafted what most people have considered to be a generational prospect at QB, then saddle him with the worst coaches and GM, fire the coach, keep the GM that seemingly none of the top candidates want to work with.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I wasn't. Reading the imbedded quote would tell you that.
I watched every game as well and easily noticed a change for the better once Meyer was removed from the equation.
Not only that, but this year wasn't about wins and losses as it was about developing Trevor. He made many mistakes you'd expect from a rookie, but by and large he was making big strides in his growth that will make him so much more prepared for the future.

I watched every min as well. What I saw was a historically bad offense 90% of the season. I believe we broke the lowest point total in team history after 16 games.

The best offensive and efficient offense we played was week 18 vs the Colts when Bevell was not the OC and not calling plays. Your vision is rlRay Charles level.

They had tendencies in the Bengals loss, Dolphins win and Falcons loss on offense that they should have consistently maintained on offense all year. They refused to create an identity. They refused to commit to any aspect of the game. They refused to play to any strengths they had.

This is chiefly on the coaching staff. I know they were hesitant to let Lawrence run a lot more. That ultimately hurt them in the long run. Failing to incorporate read and run pass options, designed QB runs, screens, quick game, inside zone reads, etc.

They failed. Next staff has to go back and build on what worked his last two years at Clemson. That needs to be at least 40% of your base offense with Etienne, Robinson and potentially a new addition via FA or draft at RB and Lawrence being the focal point.

Build off that and find your WR that's going to give you the quick slants routinely. Find that other WR that's going to be there vertically in the play action game and you absolutely need to find another TE to pair up with Arnold to serve as space finders and sideline workers when plays breakdown that can work back to him.

The more and more I look at what he did at Clemson. The more and more I like Pederson's offensive approach in the NFL to suit Lawrence's strength's at this stage in his career and after the [BLEEP] he had to eat as a rookie.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Yes.

If they really did like Doug, you fire Baalke and hire him.

Either Doug is actually willing to work with Baalke because no one else wants him to coach or Khan is ready to fire Baalke which…. Again, looks really bad that so many people have said no to Baalke and NOW, this far into the search, they finally do it. Just a dumpster fire.

For the record:

Byron/Wilson > Pederson/Baalke.

(emphasis added)

It's funny because I addressed your closing point in bold in another thread.

I think Wilson would make a better GM than Caldwell, but I prefer Pederson to leftwich because he has HC experience.

I DO think both Pederson and BL would be good for TL.

So I guess my ultimate reply to you would depend on what you think of the GMs.

To me, the possible difference between Wilson and Caldwell is what might tip the scales in favor of your analysis, but I think I favor the Pederson Caldwell combo.

Caldwell isn’t linked to being the GM though.

I totally wouldn’t mind a world where it’s Caldwell and Pederson but I don’t think that’s being discussed or rumored.

I’ve seen Caldwell as EVP with Baalke still in some kind of role with Pederson as HC.

Again. I’m on board with Pederson but not if it keeps Baalke here.

https://twitter.com/miaobrientv/status/1...30179?s=21

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Yesterday I was hoping the lack of news was indication that Leftwich / Wilson was still the most likely outcome. But now it's pretty apparent my hunch and hope was wrong and that insead this is just an all time cluster of a coaching hire. If Pederson decides he now is okay working with Baalke, and Khan goes through with it, what does that say to the league? I get the impression a lot of people around the league have respect for Leftwich. I'm sure having a minority GM would also be very attractive for many players (rightly or wrongly). To shoot those two down to stick with Baalke who seems to be universally despised, looks like a horrifically terrible decision. I know money talks but think about how many free agents and players will not want to play for us.

This was talked about at length before the process really began but this team DESPERATELY needs a Lamping version over the football side. Coughlin should have been that role but he was a bad fit. You need a guy that doesnt still want to be a coach and who isn't into the details of everything going on with the team. Be there simply to assist the head coach and GM when needed. And help guide the overall direction of the football side of the house including these kind of hiring decisions.

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

(emphasis added)

It's funny because I addressed your closing point in bold in another thread.

I think Wilson would make a better GM than Caldwell, but I prefer Pederson to leftwich because he has HC experience.

I DO think both Pederson and BL would be good for TL.

So I guess my ultimate reply to you would depend on what you think of the GMs.

To me, the possible difference between Wilson and Caldwell is what might tip the scales in favor of your analysis, but I think I favor the Pederson Caldwell combo.

Caldwell isn’t linked to being the GM though.

I totally wouldn’t mind a world where it’s Caldwell and Pederson but I don’t think that’s being discussed or rumored.

I’ve seen Caldwell as EVP with Baalke still in some kind of role with Pederson as HC.

Again. I’m on board with Pederson but not if it keeps Baalke here.

https://twitter.com/miaobrientv/status/1...30179?s=21

Well I think under that scenario, he would have a superior say on personnel matters to Baalke, much like TC and Dave Caldwell back in 2016...so when I talk about Jim Caldwell as GM, I'm talking about him as a decisionmaker, even if not with the GM title.

I could see this happening, and Baalke being gone in a year or less, which is fine with me as long as we get the best coach for TL and the best decision maker calling the shots in free agency and the draft.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Caldwell isn’t linked to being the GM though.

I totally wouldn’t mind a world where it’s Caldwell and Pederson but I don’t think that’s being discussed or rumored.

I’ve seen Caldwell as EVP with Baalke still in some kind of role with Pederson as HC.

Again. I’m on board with Pederson but not if it keeps Baalke here.

https://twitter.com/miaobrientv/status/1...30179?s=21

Well I think under that scenario, he would have a superior say on personnel matters to Baalke, much like TC and Dave Caldwell back in 2016...so when I talk about Jim Caldwell as GM, I'm talking about him as a decisionmaker, even if not with the GM title.

I could see this happening, and Baalke being gone in a year or less, which is fine with me as long as we get the best coach for TL and the best decision maker calling the shots in free agency and the draft.

We’ve seen Baalke weasel his way into every situation. He shouldn’t be anywhere near this building.

Now, if you promise me he will be gone in a year or less, sure. Lets ride. But keeping him on staff in any capacity is a bad move. Regardless of having Caldwell (who is phenomenal) and Pederson (who’s a good coach).

My dream? Caldwell EVP, Wilson GM and Byron HC. Now that would be enticing and would be a really great way to change the culture of this franchise.

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Thought experiment:

Pederson is new HC and he sits TL. Scanners time for the fanbase?

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Well I think under that scenario, he would have a superior say on personnel matters to Baalke, much like TC and Dave Caldwell back in 2016...so when I talk about Jim Caldwell as GM, I'm talking about him as a decisionmaker, even if not with the GM title.

I could see this happening, and Baalke being gone in a year or less, which is fine with me as long as we get the best coach for TL and the best decision maker calling the shots in free agency and the draft.

We’ve seen Baalke weasel his way into every situation. He shouldn’t be anywhere near this building.

Now, if you promise me he will be gone in a year or less, sure. Lets ride. But keeping him on staff in any capacity is a bad move. Regardless of having Caldwell (who is phenomenal) and Pederson (who’s a good coach).

My dream? Caldwell EVP, Wilson GM and Byron HC. Now that would be enticing and would be a really great way to change the culture of this franchise.

I think a difference is now is that if Pederson comes on board after initially being lukewarm over working with Baalke, this lets me think that Baalke will have reduced influence.

It's possible Khan now-between the final game of the season and the clown stuff, the coaching interview proicess and the beating he is taken from various local and national observers- has notice or an idea that Baalke is a liability, even if he may not be persuaded enough at this point to dump him.  Maybe he has told Pederson that he may eventually be flexible on Baalke.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Caldwell isn’t linked to being the GM though.

I totally wouldn’t mind a world where it’s Caldwell and Pederson but I don’t think that’s being discussed or rumored.

I’ve seen Caldwell as EVP with Baalke still in some kind of role with Pederson as HC.

Again. I’m on board with Pederson but not if it keeps Baalke here.

https://twitter.com/miaobrientv/status/1...30179?s=21

Well I think under that scenario, he would have a superior say on personnel matters to Baalke, much like TC and Dave Caldwell back in 2016...so when I talk about Jim Caldwell as GM, I'm talking about him as a decisionmaker, even if not with the GM title.

I could see this happening, and Baalke being gone in a year or less, which is fine with me as long as we get the best coach for TL and the best decision maker calling the shots in free agency and the draft.

I don't think you can keep Baalke in the building at all. Hes gotta go no matter what. Can't even keep him around and demote him to a lower position.

He's a snake and has thrown people under the bus every where hes been. You simply can't keep that toxicity in the building, even with bringing in new staffers to run the show. The outcome will not end good.

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Well I think under that scenario, he would have a superior say on personnel matters to Baalke, much like TC and Dave Caldwell back in 2016...so when I talk about Jim Caldwell as GM, I'm talking about him as a decisionmaker, even if not with the GM title.

I could see this happening, and Baalke being gone in a year or less, which is fine with me as long as we get the best coach for TL and the best decision maker calling the shots in free agency and the draft.

I don't think you can keep Baalke in the building at all. Hes gotta go no matter what. Can't even keep him around and demote him to a lower position.

He's a snake and has thrown people under the bus every where hes been. You simply can't keep that toxicity in the building, even with bringing in new staffers to run the show. The outcome will not end good.

Generally I am inclined to agree with you.

Sadly, Khan my not agree with you. 

The scenario I offerred might be a best case scenario given Khan's apparent loyalty to/reluctance to move on from Baalke.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

We’ve seen Baalke weasel his way into every situation. He shouldn’t be anywhere near this building.

Now, if you promise me he will be gone in a year or less, sure. Lets ride. But keeping him on staff in any capacity is a bad move. Regardless of having Caldwell (who is phenomenal) and Pederson (who’s a good coach).

My dream? Caldwell EVP, Wilson GM and Byron HC. Now that would be enticing and would be a really great way to change the culture of this franchise.

I think a difference is now is that if Pederson comes on board after initially being lukewarm over working with Baalke, this lets me think that Baalke will have reduced influence.

It's possible Khan now-between the final game of the season and the clown stuff, the coaching interview proicess and the beating he is taken from various local and national observers- has notice or an idea that Baalke is a liability, even if he may not be persuaded enough at this point to dump him.  Maybe he has told Pederson that he may eventually be flexible on Baalke.

Kahn also has a problem in that Balke is the only point of consistency in the org the last few years.  Coaches have all turned over a couple times.  Players in and out.  The organisation has zero self-sustaining momentum.

It's one thing to argue Balke should go but it's another thing to make that happen without the whole place falling to pieces.  Pederson (or whomever else Kahn interviews) has been a month between interviews because there's a lot of work to be done for this next one.  A roster assessment, a drafting strategy, coaching changes, a TL rescue plan.  This next head coach has a lot of things to fix all at once.  Before Kahn hires he may want to see a plan in detail with the candidate's thoughts drawn out and ready to go.  Particularly if UM was a "trust me, I can do this" hire.

It's very possible the first Pederson conversation went something like:

Pederson: "Look, if I'm going to do this job then all these things have to change."

Kahn: "Sure, but it isn't that easy.  You're asking me to change a lot.  Show me your detailed plans on how it could be done and we'll talk."

Pederson: "You're right.  It is a lot and I'm not sure I want this job in Jacksonville.  I'll let you know."

Pederson goes away, works with his confidants and decides he'll give this Jacksonville thing a try after all.  A month later, they are back in a room talking details on how a transition could happen.  Then Kahn just needs to decide whether to take a punt on Pederson and his crew or not.

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May have been floated by others but I'm hoping that the reason we are doing 2nd interviews with people who didn't want Baalke is because Khan decided that if he was going to get rid of Baalke then it only makes since to interview everyone.

That or he's just an idiot... yeah he's probably just an idiot.

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I don't think you can keep Baalke in the building at all. Hes gotta go no matter what. Can't even keep him around and demote him to a lower position.

He's a snake and has thrown people under the bus every where hes been. You simply can't keep that toxicity in the building, even with bringing in new staffers to run the show. The outcome will not end good.

Generally I am inclined to agree with you.

Sadly, Khan my not agree with you. 

The scenario I offerred might be a best case scenario given Khan's apparent loyalty to/reluctance to move on from Baalke.

Yea man I don't know what Khan's love affair for Baalke is, but apparently he loves the guy and Baalke has Khan wrapped around his finger. I was watching/listening to Uche's podcast that was live a little bit ago and he had Dilla on it.

Uche made a comment that he talked to somebody close to Khan and that person basically said that Shad is all but in love with the dude, for whatever reason. Dilla agreed.

It all makes total sense as well with all the reports of how manipulative Baalke is and how he gets into people's ears, as well as whats transpired with this coaching search. Same exact thing happened with Baalke and the 49ers owner that's currently happening here with him and Shad. He got into their ears and manipulated everything because he knows this is his last chance to keep a job in the NFL so he's doing whatever it takes to keep it.

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I think a difference is now is that if Pederson comes on board after initially being lukewarm over working with Baalke, this lets me think that Baalke will have reduced influence.

I think it's more likely that Pederson has reconsidered his anti-Baalke stance since striking out hard on all of the other NFL job openings.

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