this... this team is going to be moving... there is no and ifs or butt's about it.... and it will be in the next few years

 

lol

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm responding to other's who claimed RTs can be found in the later rounds.

 

Yes, we can replace Monroe via Free Agency.  My argument was that the compensation was lacking.  Monroe has more value to us than what we would recoup in that trade.  If you can't find his value, then keep him.  I'm not convinced as some others are that he wouldn't resign with us.

 

The problem is that you have like a 5% chance of finding a long term starter in rounds 4-7 and even less of a chance of finding a top level starter.  That's why the trade is undesirable to many.  We give up a top tier starter for 2 picks that are unlikely to even start.  No value.  Keep Monroe instead.

 

You had two options.

 

1. Overpay Monroe (either by contract or franchise tag).  Get no draft picks.
   
2. Overpay <insert name here> in FA.  Get draft picks to use on other players.
   

I don't see any major disservice done to the team by option 2.

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Yes, we can replace Monroe via Free Agency.  My argument was that the compensation was lacking.  Monroe has more value to us than what we would recoup in that trade.  If you can't find his value, then keep him.  I'm not convinced as some others are that he wouldn't resign with us.

So overpay him, while we have someone ready to step into the LT position and is probably more comfortable at it?


I wish we had gotten more out of the trade too.  Believe me.  At least a 3rd.  But eventually you'll be giving your RT money more suited for an LT.  He doesn't fit into the long term plans, and that means we don't want to overpay him.  And if we sign him to a 2 year deal... in 2 years he'll be 2 years older, and may have regressed.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

lol

 

We need to save his posts.  Starting to border on the line of "OMG!!!, Gene Smith!!!!"  

 

Krazy, shouldn't you then be making your way to a new board?  If this team is as good as gone, then why waste another minute on here?  

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Oh well, I'm pretty much done with this thread...

 

Its water under the bridge now. I don't like the return we got for Monroe, but at this point it is what it is. 

 

Hopefully we get better value (per the player) in some future trades that I hope we make this season in return for picks. Not meaning that I'd expect Marcedes to net more than Monroe got (for example) , but just better value on a case by case basis. 

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I know, its scary when you think about it....

 

Combine that with him deeming Marcedes as one of the core going forward and you are starting to see some incompetence.

 

 

He also called Monroe part of the core going forward, in the same breath he used to refer to Marcedes.

 

So why, then, with that in mind, do you continue to act as though this is some kind of evidence that Caldwell believes Marcedes is a wonderful, all-world, can't-ever-be-let-go, he's-going-to-play-for-the-Jaguars-forever tight end?

 

Yes. He said Marcedes was a core player and kept him around.

But yes, he also said Monroe was a core player and kept him around, until now.  

 

Is it even within the realm of possibility that the team either a) plans to or b) has tried to move Marcedes?

 

And if he's as horrendous a player as you think he is, why would any team pony up for him? 

 

Or is it possible Marcedes is simply biding his time on this roster while Caldwell plans to upgrade the position when he can? 

 

Considering Marcedes' comment this morning, I think the tight end knows the writing is on the wall for him.

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On Wisconsin.

I don't like the return we got for Monroe, but at this point it is what it is. 
 

Hopefully we get better value (per the player) in some future trades that I hope we make this season in return for picks. Not meaning that I'd expect Marcedes to net more than Monroe got (for example) , but just better value on a case by case basis. 

 

Might be the first thought in this thread we are both in agreement with.

 

I don't think anyone thought we got a particularly good deal, but I do think it's fair market.

 

The Raiders of the Al Davis era are gone, probably forever.  Time to get used to teams paying fair market value for their desperate needs.

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One of those 4th or 5th rounders is that statistical anomoly, that diamond in the ruff  then the trade is successful. If they dont pan out all you lose is the 12 games that remained in his contract.

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

Oh well, I'm pretty much done with this thread...

 

Its water under the bridge now. I don't like the return we got for Monroe, but at this point it is what it is. 

 

Hopefully we get better value (per the player) in some future trades that I hope we make this season in return for picks. Not meaning that I'd expect Marcedes to net more than Monroe got (for example) , but just better value on a case by case basis. 

 

Marcedes would likely garner zero draft picks because nobody is trading for him.

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You had two options.

 

1. Overpay Monroe (either by contract or franchise tag).  Get no draft picks.
   
2. Overpay <insert name here> in FA.  Get draft picks to use on other players.
   

I don't see any major disservice done to the team by option 2.

 

I don't have an aversion to option 2 either...  On the condition one of the picks was at least a 3rd.  Other options open up if you absolutely can't get a 3rd.  Like overpaying Monroe with a very front loaded contract, having 2 bookend tackles while you wait for the right opportunity to find his replacement, and then trading or releasing Monroe with very little left on his contract.

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lol....its funny because its true

yep....

 

groundhog day all over again.... i get cleaning house, but it is now to the point that we are just making more holes for the sake of making them... rather than hanging on to what little solid players we do have

 

this team is 40 years away from being competitive

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Might be the first thought in this thread we are both in agreement with.

 

I don't think anyone thought we got a particularly good deal, but I do think it's fair market.

 

The Raiders of the Al Davis era are gone, probably forever.  Time to get used to teams paying fair market value for their desperate needs.

 

I really don't want to get back into war on this thread, so I'll just say that I am not so sure I agree with the last sentence. 

 

The Redskins gave a boatload (overpaid) for RG3, The Colts overpaid for Richardson (based on his performance thus far in the NFL), McDaniels recently overpaid to trade up for Tebow (of all people)....The Cowboys overpiad for Roy Williams....

 

Maybe all these teams were just "lucky"...

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You had two options.

 

1. Overpay Monroe (either by contract or franchise tag).  Get no draft picks.
   
2. Overpay <insert name here> in FA.  Get draft picks to use on other players.
   

I don't see any major disservice done to the team by option 2.

 

That is true.  Also you will be paying for a RT, not a LT.  

 

I thought we could have gotten more then a 4th and 5th.  But I'm not calling teams to get an idea of Monroe's value.  It is apparent the Monroe is not in the Jaguars future plans.

 

To me, it sounds like things went down like this:

 

Caldwell wanted to find out if Monroe would improve (better then good) and fit the scheme the Jaguars were running.  He drafts Luke because it offers flexibility so he doesn't HAVE to do anything then or now (also highest rated player on their board).  He then puts Luke at the RT position with a possibility that he will thrive there and Monroe will take that next step.  He could possibly have both tackles of the future.  If Monroe doesn't work out, then he can trade Monroe and move Luke back to his natural position.  As the season goes on, he sees that Monroe isn't taking that next step.  Also, he is actually looking worse and not playing well in the new offensive line scheme.  He is playing "soft" as reported and doesn't fit well in zone blocking.  Caldwell is feeling out his value and after calls moves forward with trade to the Ravens.  Acquiring picks (4th and 5th) and filling his spot with the future.  He could have tried to franchise him in the hopes someone would make a better trade, but A. no guarantees and B. that is a mess to deal with.  Also, it doesn't leave him a plan B.  Teams may realize that it is a desperate move for a team that has no real plans of keeping Monroe.  

 

Or we can go with Krazy's theory that Caldwell was brought in to destroy the franchise with no intentions of getting better, hurting his future viability and helping Khan accomplish his master plan....

 

Or Knarnn who thinks Caldwell is the next Gene Smith and really has no idea what he is doing.  He trades a guy he could easily get a 1st at minimum for and jumps the gun.  In that case, Ravens were the only team he called since he isn't smart enough to shop around and figure out his market value.  Regardless if Caldwell wanted Monroe to play in a scheme where he is too "soft" and playing worse, if he can't get a 1st, he should franchise him paying him top 5 $ on a guy who has regressed...

 

Did I miss any other theories?

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Oh boy. Now it's the collective opinion around the message board GM's that our #1 pick in the draft, presumably Bridgewater or some other franchise QB, is going to be protected by a 4th round or UDFA tackle because........................there are other 4th round or UDFA tackles on other teams! Unbelievable.

 

Regards.........................the Chiefjag

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yep....

 

groundhog day all over again.... i get cleaning house, but it is now to the point that we are just making more holes for the sake of making them... rather than hanging on to what little solid players we do have

 

this team is 40 years away from being competitive

 

How can we be 40 years away, we won't even be here in a few years.  Get your stories straight.

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Marcedes would likely garner zero draft picks because nobody is trading for him.

They're driving a hard bargain, but I'd have to take that deal.

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Oh boy. Now it's the collective opinion around the message board GM's that our #1 pick in the draft, presumably Bridgewater or some other franchise QB, is going to be protected by a 4th round or UDFA tackle because........................there are other 4th round or UDFA tackles on other teams! Unbelievable.

 

Regards.........................the Chiefjag

 

Or free agency or 2nd/3rd round pick.  Many options...

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I am trying to make the point that with the 8th overall pick we got the best lineman from the draft year.  He is still good.  with the 4th and 5th round picks we received, we won't be able to land the best player in the draft.  What you said it true, not many of the lineman from that year panned out, but it's important to note if you want a good lineman, which we do want to protect the face of the franchise, you need to keep develop them and hope they work out.  Monroe was one of the good ones. 

 

There were two guys taken ahead of Monroe and several after but overall it was a draft that from the beginning was very weak at OT.  The next best guy from that draft will be playing at right tackle opposite Monroe once he gets to Baltimore.  Other than Oher (who was drafted after Monroe) I don't think there is a single guy from the first 5 rounds of that draft starting at OT in the league.  So it was a bad year for OT.

 

The Jaguars already drafter their starting left tackle.  They drafted him with the second overall pick in the draft.  He is a player who played on the only team to defeat last year's college national champions.  He is a player that many considered to be the premier OT in the 2013 draft and was considered a possibility for the first overall pick.

Eugene Monroe was never going to play right tackle for the Jaguars and Luke has better upside than Monroe at this time.  So the Jaguars will need to draft a right tackle but generally speaking, right tackles are not top 10 picks in the draft.

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yep....

 

groundhog day all over again.... i get cleaning house, but it is now to the point that we are just making more holes for the sake of making them... rather than hanging on to what little solid players we do have

 

this team is 40 years away from being competitive

 

 

Last post in thread....I promise....

 

I agree/ get cleaning house too.....in fact I am a proponent of it. I am all for gutting the current roster (except for Blackmon or The current draft class) for picks that we can use to rebuild. I also have been for trading players like MoJo when it was clear that they had hit their peak value and they wouldn't be part of the future....

 

I just wanted/ expected more of a return for a player like Monroe. Perhaps I was overrating him, I dunno....

 

 

40 years?? Jeez, I hope not!   :pinch:

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Finally there is someone in the NFL with the balls to do an NBA tank and rebuild. This is how you build a winner, get the first pick in the draft when there is a rare talent, unlike last year. Stock pile as much cap space and draft picks as you can and spend it when the time is right, not immediately to put up mediocre results. SEA was smart with the cap and they went out this year when their window just started to open, and spent money that will probably put them over the top. 

 

Even without spending that much in FA this year I can see us being fairly competitive in 2014. Teddy, Cecil, Blackmon, Ace and Luke is a very solid core. Fill 2 spots on the o-line this year whether it be draft or FA, and add some more talent to the defense and I could see us going 9-7 next year. After that we will probably be like 40M under the cap, then we spend big and our window opens.

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