How many starting centers in the league are under the 4.75 threshold ?

Digging around - there were 5 Centers in PFF's top 20 centers with times of 4.75 or higher. 
Their top rated guy (Hudson) had the exact time Fortner did. 

Plenty of guys sub 4.70 as well.  
I'd say it's AN indicator, but it seems you've probably placed too much stock in it.

It's the Packers only threshold for a drill for IOL (for OT they have SS and 3 cone thresholds), and they are by far the best OL drafting team of the past decade or more. That's good enough for me.

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Alex Leatherwood with a 4.65 SS

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He was the 3rd center drafted. I'm curious to see who does better out of Fortner and Cam Jurgens. Although Jurgens probably won't start until next year after Kelce retires.

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Alex Leatherwood with a 4.65 SS

He was the biggest reach of the draft and he already had to be moved to guard because he was so bad at RT...and he was horrible at guard too. Were you trying to help my point?

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He was the 3rd center drafted. I'm curious to see who does better out of Fortner and Cam Jurgens. Although Jurgens probably won't start until next year after Kelce retires.

I would say if I had to start a game tomorrow I may actually take Fortner. Jurgens is the freakshow C of this class, but he is also a wild man on the field who needs to harness himself greatly. It's good that he should get to marinate for a year before playing. I think year 2 going forward I would much rather have Jurgens.

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How many starting centers in the league are under the 4.75 threshold ?

Digging around - there were 5 Centers in PFF's top 20 centers with times of 4.75 or higher. 
Their top rated guy (Hudson) had the exact time Fortner did. 

Plenty of guys sub 4.70 as well.  
I'd say it's AN indicator, but it seems you've probably placed too much stock in it.

There is a difference in 40 time on a track and 40 time on the field. I remember one of our coaches saying they look at the 40 time at the combine then go evaluate the draftees tapes to confirm game speed.  I hope they do...lol

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/draft/202...ke-fortner

Unfortunately the only drill that really correlates to IOL success is short shuttle, and there is a large difference between 4.71 and 4.95. Linder was barely on the right side of the 4.75 threshold and obviously Fortner is nowhere near it. Fortner needs to become an outlier.

LOL! That drill does not correlate with the skills needed to be an IOL.

That is something a LB needs to be good at to track a runner.

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Alex Leatherwood with a 4.65 SS

He was the biggest reach of the draft and he already had to be moved to guard because he was so bad at RT...and he was horrible at guard too. Were you trying to help my point?

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He was the 3rd center drafted.  I'm curious to see who does better out of Fortner and Cam Jurgens.  Although Jurgens probably won't start until next year after Kelce retires.

I would say if I had to start a game tomorrow I may actually take Fortner. Jurgens is the freakshow C of this class, but he is also a wild man on the field who needs to harness himself greatly. It's good that he should get to marinate for a year before playing. I think year 2 going forward I would much rather have Jurgens.

How is he making your point? The shuttle is about running and changing direction in space. Leatherwood was a rookie that gave up too many sacks and penalties.

Neither of those things have anything to do with the shuttle demonstrates.

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He was the biggest reach of the draft and he already had to be moved to guard because he was so bad at RT...and he was horrible at guard too. Were you trying to help my point?

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I would say if I had to start a game tomorrow I may actually take Fortner. Jurgens is the freakshow C of this class, but he is also a wild man on the field who needs to harness himself greatly. It's good that he should get to marinate for a year before playing. I think year 2 going forward I would much rather have Jurgens.

How is he making your point? The shuttle is about running and changing direction in space. Leatherwood was a rookie that gave up too many sacks and penalties.

Neither of those things have anything to do with the shuttle demonstrates.

The shuttle shows how well you can slide your feet, which is obviously a critical skill for an offensive lineman.

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Digging around - there were 5 Centers in PFF's top 20 centers with times of 4.75 or higher. 
Their top rated guy (Hudson) had the exact time Fortner did. 

Plenty of guys sub 4.70 as well.  
I'd say it's AN indicator, but it seems you've probably placed too much stock in it.

There is a difference in 40 time on a track and 40 time on the field. I remember one of our coaches saying they look at the 40 time at the combine then go evaluate the draftees tapes to confirm game speed.  I hope they do...lol

We were talking shuttle times, not 40, but I get your point and it still applies to a degree. 
I'm a big "tape >>>>drills" guy.

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The first thing when you look at scouting reports about Fortner is they talk about how brilliant he is. The next thing they say is that he lacks mobility and really struggles to get to the 2nd level and engage blockers in space. As y'all know I live 10 minutes from Kroger field and have seen probably north of 95% of his career snaps. I can attest that that checks out.

I think the tape and the drills agree. As I said early in this thread, we'll see if being next level smart can overcome physical deficiencies. It's not the type of gamble I would have made, but I will hope to be wrong.

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How is he making your point? The shuttle is about running and changing direction in space. Leatherwood was a rookie that gave up too many sacks and penalties.

Neither of those things have anything to do with the shuttle demonstrates.

The shuttle shows how well you can slide your feet, which is obviously a critical skill for an offensive lineman.

No it doesn't.

It's about running planting your feet and running back the other way. It's all about planting your feet and accelerating in the opposite direction not sliding your feet.

I'm beginning to think you don't know what the short shuttle is.

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Show me where there is sliding feet in this drill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr1glCubX9A

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good Fortner deep dive here:


https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists...ce=twitter

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Thanks for the Luke Fortner article.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

good Fortner deep dive here:


https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists...ce=twitter

Wow ? whose legs are those on the left in the main photo? Looks like a brontosaurus.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

good Fortner deep dive here:


https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists...ce=twitter

Thanks !  Good article. I know some would rather have other centers, but how many have played well at both left and right guard ?   Seems that is what he did until his senior year when they switched him to center.  That flexibility cannot be ignored.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Luke "may the force be with you" Fortner.

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good Fortner deep dive here:


https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists...ce=twitter

Fantastic article and read

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Shuttle doesn't equal shuffle...

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How do you think this guy has been doing the past two games? I can recall one penalty so far.

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