To be clear, I'm not advocating against Engram as a player.  He's a nice piece and helps the team.  In a perfect world id keep him. 

He's 28, this should be the biggest contract he's ever going to sign.  I don't think he takes a cap friendly deal in his situation. 

If he does GREAT!  With Ridley here this offense could be a nightmare, just don't come in here telling me 4 years 70 million cuz bird in the hand.

Well good thing no one has even come close to mentioning 4 years for 70 million.....

Where did you come up with these numbers or are you just making it up because you think some of us would sign Engram to a blank check? Which is not the case at all if you have been paying attention.

Sounds like he's been around for a while

---

Players play.  Coaches coach.  Players don't coach.  We have coaches.

Thanks, Captain Obvious! LOL. 

Mentoring is not the same as coaching. Just FYI. A coach installs game plans throughout the work week, goes over the scripted plays, shows them what to look out for tendency wise and down and distance wise, etc. 

Players, especially veterans, who have been around for a long, long time can mentor younger players through your group workouts, breakfast and lunch breaks, midgame, on the sideline, etc. 

Why is this such a hard or foreign concept to grasp? It's a brotherhood at the end of the day for these guys. You don't think Peterson, Houston, Graham or Jones wouldn't be able to walk up to Campbell and Walker and say: 

"Hey, I have played this guy many times over my career, when he gives you this little shoulder lean to his left, be looking for him to actually cut back inside and make a move on you towards the right".

if that's what you want, find a retired guy who played a bunch and recently, pay him to be an assistant to the position coach, and they can spend all day working film, scouting, and sharing this kind of input without taking up roster spots or cap space.

---

I never said anyone proposed those #s. I'm just illustratingthat there is a # where cooler heads have to prevail.

Incidentally, that's what they gave kirk and how I would start negotiations if I were his agent.

---

I never said anyone proposed those #s.  I'm just illustratingthat there is a # where cooler heads have to prevail. 

Incidentally, that's what they gave kirk and how I would start negotiations if I were his agent.

You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

First. Kirk is a WR (Crazy right?!) and WR contracts are no where close to tight end contracts.

Second, if you were his agent, you would start the negotiations by asking for the highest average salary per year for a TE?

I think you're confusing people wanting Engram to stay with this idea that it's Engram or no one.

---

Thanks, Captain Obvious! LOL. 

Mentoring is not the same as coaching. Just FYI. A coach installs game plans throughout the work week, goes over the scripted plays, shows them what to look out for tendency wise and down and distance wise, etc. 

Players, especially veterans, who have been around for a long, long time can mentor younger players through your group workouts, breakfast and lunch breaks, midgame, on the sideline, etc. 

Why is this such a hard or foreign concept to grasp? It's a brotherhood at the end of the day for these guys. You don't think Peterson, Houston, Graham or Jones wouldn't be able to walk up to Campbell and Walker and say: 

"Hey, I have played this guy many times over my career, when he gives you this little shoulder lean to his left, be looking for him to actually cut back inside and make a move on you towards the right".

if that's what you want, find a retired guy who played a bunch and recently, pay him to be an assistant to the position coach, and they can spend all day working film, scouting, and sharing this kind of input without taking up roster spots or cap space.

There is already a good dynamic in place with CJ/TL.  Doug and Trevor both spoke highly of it at different points in 2022.
It is clearly valued, and cost very little to maintain the continuity. 
I don't understand what is bad about that.

---

I never said anyone proposed those #s.  I'm just illustratingthat there is a # where cooler heads have to prevail. 

Incidentally, that's what they gave kirk and how I would start negotiations if I were his agent.

You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

First. Kirk is a WR (Crazy right?!) and WR contracts are no where close to tight end contracts.

Second, if you were his agent, you would start the negotiations by asking for the highest average salary per year for a TE?

I think you're confusing people wanting Engram to stay with this idea that it's Engram or no one.

Yeh, if I was hos agent I would.  That's how contracts work.  It's the next guy who signs.

---

There's a lot of talk in this thread about 'the same old Jags', etc etc. Just a reminder: we are no longer the dysfunctional franchise of the NFL, or even the AFC South, thanks to Peterson and Baalke. That title now belongs to the Texans, Colts, Raiders, Cardinals, Bears, etc. For us, those days are over.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

There's a lot of talk in this thread about 'the same old Jags', etc etc.  Just a reminder: we are no longer the dysfunctional franchise of the NFL, or even the AFC South, thanks to Peterson and Baalke.  That title now belongs to the Texans, Colts, Raiders, Cardinals, Bears, etc.  For us, those days are over.

That's right.  I'm not going to wring my hands over any of these moves.  After last year, I can assume Baalke and Pederson know what they are doing, and how to put together a team.

---

Engram is replaceable.

All of our skill positions are going to play well under Pederson and Lawrence.

Kirk, Jones and Ridley are tying up a lot of money in the receiving room.

With so many weapons plus Ridley, Engrams targets/production is sure to drop a bit and that's not going to be his fault. At best he gives us a similar season.

Why pay Engram 13-15m per year when you can draft a top tier TE at 1/24 and only pay 2.5m for the season?

Any TE taken at 24, be it Musgrave, Kincaid, Meyer.. maybe even Washington, will thrive under Pederson's offense with Trevor throwing the ball. They will cost 1/5th of what Engram will cost.

There's the shiny thing in front of you... and then there's the "big picture".

---

Engram is replaceable.

All of our skill positions are going to play well under Pederson and Lawrence.

Kirk, Jones and Ridley are tying up a lot of money in the receiving room.

With so many weapons plus Ridley, Engrams targets/production is sure to drop a bit and that's not going to be his fault. At best he gives us a similar season.

Why pay Engram 13-15m per year when you can draft a top tier TE at 1/24 and only pay 2.5m for the season?

Any TE taken at 24, be it Musgrave, Kincaid, Meyer.. maybe even Washington, will thrive under Pederson's offense with Trevor throwing the ball. They will cost 1/5th of what Engram will cost.

There's the shiny thing in front of you... and then there's the "big picture".

While what your saying makes perfect sense, it relies on four big assumptions. 

(1. Pederson will get productivity from nearly anyone at a skill position
2.Engrams numbers will drop/Assumption of some fictional ceiling 
3.A TE worthy of the pick will be available at 24
4. That TE will produce 700 yds and 5 TDs in year one)

The sketchiest of which is a reliance on a rookie to match (or come close) to Engram's 2022 production. 

Many don't feel as comfortable assuming all of those things as you do. 

Based on the comments from the Jags GM, staff, and Engram himself, the team's overall position on the matter is not to be as comfortable with those assumptions as you are as well. 

Then there's the whole "continuity" thing between a QB and a receiving target each entering year two in a good system. 
It usually gets better in year two. 

Ridley won't detract from that IMO. He'll simply boost the productivity of receptions from the Z receiver position. That doesn't necessarily mean fewer targets for the move TE.

---

I wouldn't expect the year 1 TE to produce those numbers but something close to it. Engram had big games when the plan/scheme was going his way.. because Pederson knew the matchups were in his favor. That's a good coach.

It's cost/value. Engram will be very expensive and I'd bet Pederson knows he can get similar production out of the draft.. certainly when you compare what would be the cost/production of the rookie wage.

Personally I'd sign OT Taylor and franchise Engram, draft a top TE rookie. Depending on the season, Maybe Engram plays the whole year, or maybe he is trade value by week 8 if the rookie is coming on fast etc... sorta like the a James Robinson scenario. Engram might be very valuable mid season if he's healthy and playing well, even if that means statistically he's putting up less numbers with the overloaded roster. Lots of teams would pick him up at 11.3m (tag) minus the games he was already paid for.

---

Engram is replaceable.

All of our skill positions are going to play well under Pederson and Lawrence.

Kirk, Jones and Ridley are tying up a lot of money in the receiving room.

With so many weapons plus Ridley, Engrams targets/production is sure to drop a bit and that's not going to be his fault. At best he gives us a similar season.

Why pay Engram 13-15m per year when you can draft a top tier TE at 1/24 and only pay 2.5m for the season?

Any TE taken at 24, be it Musgrave, Kincaid, Meyer.. maybe even Washington, will thrive under Pederson's offense with Trevor throwing the ball. They will cost 1/5th of what Engram will cost.

There's the shiny thing in front of you... and then there's the "big picture".

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I know Pederson knows how to utilize tight ends better than most coaches, however he still needs to have something to work with talent-wise. Engram does have a unique skill-set which makes him almost like another wide receiver. He has great rapport with Lawrence and is only 28. It's true that the Jaguars can draft the guys you mentioned in round 1 to replace him, but there are a couple problems with that. First, why replace a very productive player in his prime with an unknown commodity? The Jaguars have never had a tight end with the productivity of Engram which we shouldn't take for granted. Just as important, if the Jaguars take a tight end in round 1 to replace Engram, they will miss the opportunity to draft someone at a position of real need such as pass rusher, corner/nickel or offensive line. Sure, Engram will make a good chunk of money, but the Jaguars should have little trouble paying him once they cut Griffin and re-structure other high salary players. By the way, even after the Jaguars re-sign Engram I wouldn't be averse to taking a tight end in round 1 like Mayer if he was at the top of their board. Having Mayer and Engram on the field together would make Pederson's offense very hard to stop on passing downs, especially. Keeping Engram enables the team to take the BAP and possibly not having to reach for a tight end in rounds 1 or 2.

---

I'm for tagging Engram and drafting a TE at 1/24. There are some good ones who can do it all and Kinkaid is basically a replica of Engram.

I think slot/nickel corner is fine to look at in Rnd2.

You would obviously take any DL/OT who is falling further than they should be if that presents itself.

All of this is just opinions and speculation until after FA. Sometimes people become available who you wouldn't expect.

---

As for this rapport, am I missing something? Guy catches a 2 yard drag route and outrun a linebacker is that indispensable rapport? It's not like he was catching back shoulder fades in double coverage .

---

This also assumes that the BAP at 24 is a tight end which means you're drafting for need and potentially paying a huge opportunity cost.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

As for this rapport, am I missing something?  Guy catches a 2 yard drag route and outrun a linebacker is that indispensable rapport?  It's not like he was catching back shoulder fades in double coverage .

He's the best TE we've ever had.  He wants to be here.  The front office and coaching staff wants him to be here.  He's going to be here.  They are going to sign him to a nice fat contract.  It's going to happen.  Just accept it.

---

Outside of QB, TE is generally the hardest position for rookies to acclimate to in the NFL. It's a different world.

---

I hope we can sign him to an extension but if the 2 sides can't agree on a deal just tag him. No big deal

---

As for this rapport, am I missing something?  Guy catches a 2 yard drag route and outrun a linebacker is that indispensable rapport?  It's not like he was catching back shoulder fades in double coverage .

He's the best TE we've ever had.  He wants to be here.  The front office and coaching staff wants him to be here.  He's going to be here.  They are going to sign him to a nice fat contract.  It's going to happen.  Just accept it.

My man, you are wasting your digital breath on some of these people. They seem to want to recede back to mediocrity just to save a few bucks for less quality and experience. Sometimes you gotta shop at Nordstrom's and not Dollar Tree to maintain your level.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Either way you look at it he will be here this year whether it be an extension or the tag

---