It's very possible.

If Trevor takes that third year leap and continues to mimick Josh Allens 3 year growth spurt (including adding a stud WR in year 3)
And if our defense can become a bit more tolerable, we certainly have a shot.

If Mahomes didn't exist i'd say we had really good chances, but that guy is out here replacing Brady right now and he's pissing me off.

He’s better than Brady.

Brady didn’t carry the Pats in the early years. That was all defense and Belicheck. Mahomes been carrying them since day 1.

I would temper that a bit.  He's probably better than Brady at this stage in their careers, but highly highly unlikely he or anyone else accomplishes what Brady did in the entirety of his career.  And carrying them since day 1?  I don't know.  He stepped into a roster with Kelce and Tyreek.  Brady had Troy Brown and Deion Branch. There is a chasm of difference in talent between those receiving groups considering both Kelce and Tyreek are also headed to the Hall and Tyreek left and is still one of the best receivers in the game.  Branch became a nobody when he left.  No, Mahomes wasn't carrying them.  They were collectively great from his onset. 

Putting the Pats early success under Brady all on the Defense is a bit revisionist as well.  I don't remember anyone suggesting such a thing at the time, nor did I look at Brady and have any "Yeah, but..." type of thoughts.  Everyone at the time thought the two best QBs in the league were Brady and Manning.  The debate at the time that has since been put to bed was Manning was better but didn't have the supporting cast. Manning had much better weapons overall during his career than Brady did though.

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To add... When you've appeared in 14 championship games (almost a regular season's worth of championship games, lol), when you've appeared in 10 Super Bowls, when you've got 7 rings and someone comes along and says it was mostly something or someone else responsible at any point, it sounds like a laughably bad take is all. In a game with so many players on the field at one time and so many variables at play on each snap, dude will likely be the GOAT for eternity unless the game morphs into something completely different.

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He’s better than Brady.

Brady didn’t carry the Pats in the early years. That was all defense and Belicheck. Mahomes been carrying them since day 1.

I would temper that a bit.  He's probably better than Brady at this stage in their careers, but highly highly unlikely he or anyone else accomplishes what Brady did in the entirety of his career.  And carrying them since day 1?  I don't know.  He stepped into a roster with Kelce and Tyreek.  Brady had Troy Brown and Deion Branch. There is a chasm of difference in talent between those receiving groups considering both Kelce and Tyreek are also headed to the Hall and Tyreek left and is still one of the best receivers in the game.  Branch became a nobody when he left.  No, Mahomes wasn't carrying them.  They were collectively great from his onset. 

Putting the Pats early success under Brady all on the Defense is a bit revisionist as well.  I don't remember anyone suggesting such a thing at the time, nor did I look at Brady and have any "Yeah, but..." type of thoughts.  Everyone at the time thought the two best QBs in the league were Brady and Manning.  The debate at the time that has since been put to bed was Manning was better but didn't have the supporting cast. Manning had much better weapons overall during his career than Brady did though.

Pats first SB. Brady threw for 145 yards and a TD.
2nd SB he played great with 300 yards and 3 TDs.
3rd SB. 236 and 2 TDs.

This is an average of 227 yards passing and 2 TDs. It wasn't until his 8th season that things really started to take off for him in terms of stats and passing numbers. He certainly won a lot of games but I don't think it was because of the passing game.

Brady is currently the GOAT but here's how I (personally) determine who is the best. If you take every single NFL player of all time. Throw them in a draft. Who do you take #1? For me, it's Mahomes. He does everything at an elite level. He can play in any offense, can make every throw, can scramble if he needs to, he's clutch and he has the ability to make everyone around him better.

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I would temper that a bit.  He's probably better than Brady at this stage in their careers, but highly highly unlikely he or anyone else accomplishes what Brady did in the entirety of his career.  And carrying them since day 1?  I don't know.  He stepped into a roster with Kelce and Tyreek.  Brady had Troy Brown and Deion Branch. There is a chasm of difference in talent between those receiving groups considering both Kelce and Tyreek are also headed to the Hall and Tyreek left and is still one of the best receivers in the game.  Branch became a nobody when he left.  No, Mahomes wasn't carrying them.  They were collectively great from his onset. 

Putting the Pats early success under Brady all on the Defense is a bit revisionist as well.  I don't remember anyone suggesting such a thing at the time, nor did I look at Brady and have any "Yeah, but..." type of thoughts.  Everyone at the time thought the two best QBs in the league were Brady and Manning.  The debate at the time that has since been put to bed was Manning was better but didn't have the supporting cast. Manning had much better weapons overall during his career than Brady did though.

Pats first SB. Brady threw for 145 yards and a TD.
2nd SB he played great with 300 yards and 3 TDs.
3rd SB. 236 and 2 TDs.

This is an average of 227 yards passing and 2 TDs. It wasn't until his 8th season that things really started to take off for him in terms of stats and passing numbers. He certainly won a lot of games but I don't think it was because of the passing game.

Brady is currently the GOAT but here's how I (personally) determine who is the best. If you take every single NFL player of all time. Throw them in a draft. Who do you take #1? For me, it's Mahomes. He does everything at an elite level. He can play in any offense, can make every throw, can scramble if he needs to, he's clutch and he has the ability to make everyone around him better.

I agree completely. Mahomes is already a HOF QB. If you were to put Mahomes on those NE teams he'd end up with a better career than Brady, he's just more talented at every level. Not saying Mahomes will end his career with 6 SBs wins and match Brady's accolades, but he is the more talented player which is just crazy.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Mahomes didn't play Day 1, he rode the bench his first year. He also benefits from having Andy Reid and a great supporting cast. He's great, no doubt, but he's not Brady yet.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Mahomes didn't play Day 1, he rode the bench his first year. He also benefits from having Andy Reid and a great supporting cast. He's great, no doubt, but he's not Brady yet.

If you did an all-time draft, who are you taking #1 overall to start your franchise?

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Mahomes didn't play Day 1, he rode the bench his first year. He also benefits from having Andy Reid and a great supporting cast. He's great, no doubt, but he's not Brady yet.

If you did an all-time draft, who are you taking #1 overall to start your franchise?

All time as in, they're all rookies coming in, or are we drafting based on what they are today? BY what rules are we playing, the current ones or the ones Johhny Unitas played under? Heck, modern QBs including Mahomes even benefit from the rules changes that Brady caused to happen loosening up the defenses. Put those guys out there with the rule of the '60s and it might be a different story.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

He’s better than Brady.

Brady didn’t carry the Pats in the early years. That was all defense and Belicheck. Mahomes been carrying them since day 1.

I would temper that a bit.  He's probably better than Brady at this stage in their careers, but highly highly unlikely he or anyone else accomplishes what Brady did in the entirety of his career.  And carrying them since day 1?  I don't know.  He stepped into a roster with Kelce and Tyreek.  Brady had Troy Brown and Deion Branch. There is a chasm of difference in talent between those receiving groups considering both Kelce and Tyreek are also headed to the Hall and Tyreek left and is still one of the best receivers in the game.  Branch became a nobody when he left.  No, Mahomes wasn't carrying them.  They were collectively great from his onset. 

Putting the Pats early success under Brady all on the Defense is a bit revisionist as well.  I don't remember anyone suggesting such a thing at the time, nor did I look at Brady and have any "Yeah, but..." type of thoughts.  Everyone at the time thought the two best QBs in the league were Brady and Manning.  The debate at the time that has since been put to bed was Manning was better but didn't have the supporting cast. Manning had much better weapons overall during his career than Brady did though.

No I 100% agree he's a better player than Brady was at any point, but still gotta give Brady his dues considering the acomplishments.. However barring a major injury/fall off i'd be shocked if Pat didn't end his career with similar achievements, and likely far better numbers.

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He’s better than Brady.

Brady didn’t carry the Pats in the early years. That was all defense and Belicheck. Mahomes been carrying them since day 1.

I would temper that a bit.  He's probably better than Brady at this stage in their careers, but highly highly unlikely he or anyone else accomplishes what Brady did in the entirety of his career.  And carrying them since day 1?  I don't know.  He stepped into a roster with Kelce and Tyreek.  Brady had Troy Brown and Deion Branch. There is a chasm of difference in talent between those receiving groups considering both Kelce and Tyreek are also headed to the Hall and Tyreek left and is still one of the best receivers in the game.  Branch became a nobody when he left.  No, Mahomes wasn't carrying them.  They were collectively great from his onset. 

Putting the Pats early success under Brady all on the Defense is a bit revisionist as well.  I don't remember anyone suggesting such a thing at the time, nor did I look at Brady and have any "Yeah, but..." type of thoughts.  Everyone at the time thought the two best QBs in the league were Brady and Manning.  The debate at the time that has since been put to bed was Manning was better but didn't have the supporting cast. Manning had much better weapons overall during his career than Brady did though.

I disagree, I think outside of Bradys SB wins/playoff success i'd argue to say the majority of fans thought of Peyton as the better overall quarterback for the majority of their time in the league together. Brady however in the final stretch of his career kinda put that to bed with how successful he was at the end.


And with that being said, I'm pretty sure since Mahomes first year or maybe midway through his second.. He was undoubtedly the most gifted passer we've ever seen.

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Mahomes didn't play Day 1, he rode the bench his first year. He also benefits from having Andy Reid and a great supporting cast. He's great, no doubt, but he's not Brady yet.

If you did an all-time draft, who are you taking #1 overall to start your franchise?

Mahomes, and it's not close. I love Brady and think he is deserving of his goat status but Mahomes does everything Brady can, with the added caveat that he's just simply more talented and athleticly gifted. 

He is the prototypical QB, and if he plays as long as Brady does i'd be shocked if he didn't at the very least catch up to Tom in terms of his acomplishments.

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My apologies that this is spiraling off topic, but I'll say this about the hypothetical draft. Mahomes could fall off in a few years (interested to see him without Kelce), we just don't know what his future holds or what his longevity will be. He has been great to this point, no doubt, and will probably be very good/great for a while, but to put them in the same hypothetical draft at some point in their careers with Brady's known 20+ year career potential and Mahomes' 5 seasons as starter plus the unknown of what comes after that, you'd be an absolute fool to select the latter right now.

I'll add that stats aren't everything, especially stats without context. Football isn't baseball. What your eyes tell you and the end result matters most and it matters even more when the end result you're looking for keeps coming over and over again. That's greatness and with Brady, it's a level of greatness we will likely never see again and that's no disrespect to the greatness that Mahomes has shown to date.

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Mahomes didn't play Day 1, he rode the bench his first year. He also benefits from having Andy Reid and a great supporting cast. He's great, no doubt, but he's not Brady yet.

If you did an all-time draft, who are you taking #1 overall to start your franchise?

Brady. The longevity, the willingness to take a smaller salary, the clutch performances, the most improbable comeback in NFL Superbowl history, let alone, NFL history. The fact that he did it multiple times in New England is impressive. What's more impressive is that he went down to Tampa Bay and did it again without Belichick. That's stood out to me more than anything. What Brady did without Belichick and what Belichick has not been able to replicate thus far without him.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

My apologies that this is spiraling off topic, but I'll say this about the hypothetical draft.  Mahomes could fall off in a few years (interested to see him without Kelce), we just don't know what his future holds or what his longevity will be.  He has been great to this point, no doubt, and will probably be very good/great for a while, but to put them in the same hypothetical draft at some point in their careers with Brady's known 20+ year career potential and Mahomes' 5 seasons as starter plus the unknown of what comes after that, you'd be an absolute fool to select the latter.

Mahomes is super human and has rare ability. 

But yeah, longevity on the Brady scale will be a challenge.

We'll also need to see Mahomes take a cast of nobody's to a championship game as Brady did a couple of times. 

Silly to compare them this early in Mahomes' career, but it's what we do I guess.

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My apologies that this is spiraling off topic, but I'll say this about the hypothetical draft.  Mahomes could fall off in a few years (interested to see him without Kelce), we just don't know what his future holds or what his longevity will be.  He has been great to this point, no doubt, and will probably be very good/great for a while, but to put them in the same hypothetical draft at some point in their careers with Brady's known 20+ year career potential and Mahomes' 5 seasons as starter plus the unknown of what comes after that, you'd be an absolute fool to select the latter right now.

I'll add that stats aren't everything, especially stats without context.  Football isn't baseball.  What your eyes tell you and the end result matters most and it matters even more when the end result you're looking for keeps coming over and over again.  That's greatness and with Brady, it's a level of greatness we will likely never see again and that's no disrespect to the greatness that Mahomes has shown to date.

Many people thought Mahomes couldn't win without Tyreek.... And yet he won a SB.

The same people are going to question if he can do it without Kelce and I'm sure he will. The biggest downside the Jaguars have for the next 10-15 years is Mahomes. The Jags finally have their QB and it's coming at the same time as Burrow, Allen and Mahomes.

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My apologies that this is spiraling off topic, but I'll say this about the hypothetical draft.  Mahomes could fall off in a few years (interested to see him without Kelce), we just don't know what his future holds or what his longevity will be.  He has been great to this point, no doubt, and will probably be very good/great for a while, but to put them in the same hypothetical draft at some point in their careers with Brady's known 20+ year career potential and Mahomes' 5 seasons as starter plus the unknown of what comes after that, you'd be an absolute fool to select the latter right now.

I'll add that stats aren't everything, especially stats without context.  Football isn't baseball.  What your eyes tell you and the end result matters most and it matters even more when the end result you're looking for keeps coming over and over again.  That's greatness and with Brady, it's a level of greatness we will likely never see again and that's no disrespect to the greatness that Mahomes has shown to date.

Many people thought Mahomes couldn't win without Tyreek.... And yet he won a SB.

The same people are going to question if he can do it without Kelce and I'm sure he will. The biggest downside the Jaguars have for the next 10-15 years is Mahomes. The Jags finally have their QB and it's coming at the same time as Burrow, Allen and Mahomes.

I think we have our QB that can go toe-to-toe with him. Looking back at our play-off loss to them. And, to be fair, Mahomes was "hobbled" to some extent. We still had some short comings offensively and near misses that altered the final score. Kirk with a monster drop on an absolutely money pass with pressure barreling down on him. The lack of pass rush, the Henne (really Pacheco or McKinnon big run) drive, etc. 

For some reason. Allen doesn't bother me as much as Mahomes and Burrow do. The three biggest things that will set this team back in 2023, much like 2022, if it indeed becomes a reoccurring theme this year, is:

1. Lack of pass rush.
2. Lack of cleaner pockets and time in general for Lawrence.
3. Lack of execution in the redzone.

That's about it. Those were the biggest takeaways last year. Defensively we had probably one of our worst overall showings as far as putting the QB on the ground for the stat that actually counts and matters the most. We saw Lawrence making quick, timely plays because he had no choice at times really and when they needed to make the big, field flipping plays? He had to move around time and time again. When he actually did get adequate time on those plays? He [BLEEP] nailed them nine times out of ten. Lastly, the interceptions, dropped passes and fumbles inside the redzone cannot happen this year. Especially against the tougher opponents.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Many people thought Mahomes couldn't win without Tyreek.... And yet he won a SB.

The same people are going to question if he can do it without Kelce and I'm sure he will. The biggest downside the Jaguars have for the next 10-15 years is Mahomes. The Jags finally have their QB and it's coming at the same time as Burrow, Allen and Mahomes.

I think we have our QB that can go toe-to-toe with him. Looking back at our play-off loss to them. And, to be fair, Mahomes was "hobbled" to some extent. We still had some short comings offensively and near misses that altered the final score. Kirk with a monster drop on an absolutely money pass with pressure barreling down on him. The lack of pass rush, the Henne (really Pacheco or McKinnon big run) drive, etc. 

For some reason. Allen doesn't bother me as much as Mahomes and Burrow do. The three biggest things that will set this team back in 2023, much like 2022, if it indeed becomes a reoccurring theme this year, is:

1. Lack of pass rush.
2. Lack of cleaner pockets and time in general for Lawrence.
3. Lack of execution in the redzone.

That's about it. Those were the biggest takeaways last year. Defensively we had probably one of our worst overall showings as far as putting the QB on the ground for the stat that actually counts and matters the most. We saw Lawrence making quick, timely plays because he had no choice at times really and when they needed to make the big, field flipping plays? He had to move around time and time again. When he actually did get adequate time on those plays? He [BLEEP] nailed them nine times out of ten. Lastly, the interceptions, dropped passes and fumbles inside the redzone cannot happen this year. Especially against the tougher opponents.

Totally agree. The Jags finally have a horse in the race now and that's the best part about being a fan of this team for the foreseeable future.

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I think we have our QB that can go toe-to-toe with him. Looking back at our play-off loss to them. And, to be fair, Mahomes was "hobbled" to some extent. We still had some short comings offensively and near misses that altered the final score. Kirk with a monster drop on an absolutely money pass with pressure barreling down on him. The lack of pass rush, the Henne (really Pacheco or McKinnon big run) drive, etc. 

For some reason. Allen doesn't bother me as much as Mahomes and Burrow do. The three biggest things that will set this team back in 2023, much like 2022, if it indeed becomes a reoccurring theme this year, is:

1. Lack of pass rush.
2. Lack of cleaner pockets and time in general for Lawrence.
3. Lack of execution in the redzone.

That's about it. Those were the biggest takeaways last year. Defensively we had probably one of our worst overall showings as far as putting the QB on the ground for the stat that actually counts and matters the most. We saw Lawrence making quick, timely plays because he had no choice at times really and when they needed to make the big, field flipping plays? He had to move around time and time again. When he actually did get adequate time on those plays? He [BLEEP] nailed them nine times out of ten. Lastly, the interceptions, dropped passes and fumbles inside the redzone cannot happen this year. Especially against the tougher opponents.

Totally agree. The Jags finally have a horse in the race now and that's the best part about being a fan of this team for the foreseeable future.

We really do. When you go back and realize that Lawrence, in one off season with essentially three new faces surrounding him offensively in Zay Jones, Christian Kirk and Evan Engram. Having to learn a new system with Pederson. Being able to overcome the nonsense that Meyer introduced to this team his rookie year. It's highly, highly impressive. He essentially gave Zay, Christian and Evan their career years in the NFL. That speaks volumes to him as an overall talent. He elevates the guys around him. That's what a franchise QB is supposed to do. He doesn't need a top shelf talent to make him look good. Would it help? Hell yeah it would help!

They went out and they got him Ridley. We'll see how that goes. But, he's got that quality to him that justified the Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning labels. He's the guy. There's no longer any doubts about it and he should genuinely be in the MVP conversation this year statistically. I just don't think he's remotely near his ceiling yet in the NFL. He's only going to get faster and better at reading defenses, studying film and making quicker decisions or even calling audibles. I still can't get over that [BLEEP] audible he made against the Chargers in that home play-off comeback. 

I cannot recall the last time we ever saw a QB in a Jaguars uniform pull something off that perfectly. Because it was. That was a call of perfection. Keep in mind. He's only 23 years old. He'll be 24 this year after we're already well into around midseason.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

To add...  When you've appeared in 14 championship games (almost a regular season's worth of championship games, lol), when you've appeared in 10 Super Bowls, when you've got 7 rings and someone comes along and says it was mostly something or someone else responsible at any point, it sounds like a laughably bad take is all.  In a game with so many players on the field at one time and so many variables at play on each snap, dude will likely be the GOAT for eternity unless the game morphs into something completely different.

I think it's just a matter of time before Mahomes ties those numbers, or beats them. Dude has only played 5 seasons now and has already been to 5 straight Championship games and 3 Super Bowls. Winning 2 of them. He's only 27 and with the way they protect QBs now days, he could definitely play another 10+ years.

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To add...  When you've appeared in 14 championship games (almost a regular season's worth of championship games, lol), when you've appeared in 10 Super Bowls, when you've got 7 rings and someone comes along and says it was mostly something or someone else responsible at any point, it sounds like a laughably bad take is all.  In a game with so many players on the field at one time and so many variables at play on each snap, dude will likely be the GOAT for eternity unless the game morphs into something completely different.

I think it's just a matter of time before Mahomes ties those numbers, or beats them. Dude has only played 5 seasons now and has already been to 5 straight Championship games and 3 Super Bowls. Winning 2 of them. He's only 27 and with the way they protect QBs now days, he could definitely play another 10+ years.

The question is whether or not he wants to play that long plus the Andy Reid factor. These guys get paid a whole lot more now. He'll be interesting to watch for years to come. Hopefully Lawrence can steal some of his thunder though and pull some of those Championship appearances and Superbowl victories here.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I think yes in that if the Jaguars aren't at least in the Divisional round of the playoffs then the season would be considered a disappointment. It's essentially a 3 game season at that point, need to be "On" then. My worry is that the Jaguars start off with a lull and have to relearn how to win again.. hoping we're a high seed this year. Contender? Sure. Dominant? Maybe..

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