The Philly stuff is what it is. 
But we aren't experiencing what they experienced. 

The 2024 offense stumbled and flailed while they implemented a radical shift in the passing attack but is showing signs of coming together now.  

Unfortunately - the stumbling and flailing was so bad I don't believe Doug or Press can save their jobs nor do I want them to.

I hear what your saying there. So they implemented a new passing attack in the off season and the implementation was so poor it took 7 games into the season for it to be appear to be profitable?  We can add that excuse to the one where the offensive line needs time to play together, then playing them only about 35 snaps in the preseason. In summary the coaching staff did not have the team ready to play game one this season?  I may be wrong, but I bet both of those are about to be blown up over the next 4 games.  Actually I do hope I am wrong....

Let me put it to you this way. 

The changes in production between 2022 and 2023  - and now the very different changes between 2023 and 2024 do not seem to align with the scenario in Philly you've compared them to. 

The loss of JBC seemed to have impact on the passing offense to a degree but so did other obvious variables like the disappearance of a viable run game which was directly linked to the OL performance. And at the end of the day the passing efficiency numbers between '22 and '23 were nearly identical. 

This year the Pederson/Taylor braintrust decided to push all their chips in on a downfield attack and it bit them in the rear end more than it clicked. Now it is showing some positive signs (has shown flashes prior to now as well) , but like you, I don't expect it to hold up against better defenses. 

But how is any of that similar to what happened in Philly? 

I just see Pederson's demise in Jax as its own failure with its own set of problems.

---

Nice that you ignored the fact that we would have had 24 points if ETN had scored.  The game would have been over if we scored that TD.  Instead, the entire bench was just sitting around looking devastated, and the coaches were just looking at their sheets.  The entire team folded after that fumble.  You know it, I know it, everyone that's a Jaguar fan knows it.  Why are you trying to revise the facts is beyond me.  Well, no.  It's not beyond me.  You need to try and be right in a situation you know you are wrong because I'm the one pointing out the fact.

But do you.  You're on tilt.  

I say, just enjoy this win.  I honestly don't want to have to remind you of everything that has happened in the last 7 weeks.  I'm just not that interested in trying to remind you of all the things you've forgotten.

I'm not revising facts - I'm telling you what happened because you are delusional and apparently not sane.

https://www.ram-trx.com/data/xfmg/thumbn...1670967999

---

I hear what your saying there. So they implemented a new passing attack in the off season and the implementation was so poor it took 7 games into the season for it to be appear to be profitable?  We can add that excuse to the one where the offensive line needs time to play together, then playing them only about 35 snaps in the preseason. In summary the coaching staff did not have the team ready to play game one this season?  I may be wrong, but I bet both of those are about to be blown up over the next 4 games.  Actually I do hope I am wrong....

Let me put it to you this way. 

The changes in production between 2022 and 2023  - and now the very different changes between 2023 and 2024 do not seem to align with the scenario in Philly you've compared them to. 

The loss of JBC seemed to have impact on the passing offense to a degree but so did other obvious variables like the disappearance of a viable run game which was directly linked to the OL performance. And at the end of the day the passing efficiency numbers between '22 and '23 were nearly identical. 

This year the Pederson/Taylor braintrust decided to push all their chips in on a downfield attack and it bit them in the rear end more than it clicked. Now it is showing some positive signs (has shown flashes prior to now as well) , but like you, I don't expect it to hold up against better defenses. 

But how is any of that similar to what happened in Philly? 

I just see Pederson's demise in Jax as its own failure with its own set of problems.

Pederson's demise is because of Pederson.  Him and him alone.  

Baalke's failures are his alone as well.  

I don't know why people give so much leeway for Pederson, and yet are so quick to bury Baalke.  They both failed this team.  There's not much more to discuss.  

This is the "Offense" thread.  So, it's totally fine to point out the failures of the so called "offensive minded" HC that was supposed to get our Franchise QB up and running.  Instead, Lawrence has regressed since 2022.  

What happened in Philly is very similar to what we are seeing here.  The locker room has quit on Doug.  Did you see the video of the Locker Room Speech he gave after this win against the Patriots?  Nobody is really engaged with him.  On top of that, the QB peaked his first year and has regressed since then.  On top of that, the HC is no longer willing to take full control of the offense like he did the first year.  All of these are similar to Philly.  Is the song the exact same?  NO.  But the melody is.  It's not the same song, but it's the same tune, the same dance. 

The only good news about Doug's time here in Jax is that he at least hasn't completely washed out Lawrence.  But, I guarantee you that if Doug and his his coaches hang around for 2025, we'll be drafting another #1 QB in 2026 or 2027.  

Why let him continue to prove he's failing?  Let's just move on, shall we?

Edit: And regarding the assertion that we didn't have a "viable run game" in 2023... ETN ran for 1000 yards and played great all season. Dude was a work horse. The fact that some fans are so fast to [BLEEP] on ETN is beyond me. Tank had promise, but they shut him down after his fumbles. It was only ETN for basically the entire season, and he played hard. Dude gave his soul for this team in 2023.

---

I hear what your saying there. So they implemented a new passing attack in the off season and the implementation was so poor it took 7 games into the season for it to be appear to be profitable?  We can add that excuse to the one where the offensive line needs time to play together, then playing them only about 35 snaps in the preseason. In summary the coaching staff did not have the team ready to play game one this season?  I may be wrong, but I bet both of those are about to be blown up over the next 4 games.  Actually I do hope I am wrong....

Let me put it to you this way. 

The changes in production between 2022 and 2023  - and now the very different changes between 2023 and 2024 do not seem to align with the scenario in Philly you've compared them to. 

The loss of JBC seemed to have impact on the passing offense to a degree but so did other obvious variables like the disappearance of a viable run game which was directly linked to the OL performance. And at the end of the day the passing efficiency numbers between '22 and '23 were nearly identical. 

This year the Pederson/Taylor braintrust decided to push all their chips in on a downfield attack and it bit them in the rear end more than it clicked. Now it is showing some positive signs (has shown flashes prior to now as well) , but like you, I don't expect it to hold up against better defenses. 

But how is any of that similar to what happened in Philly? 

I just see Pederson's demise in Jax as its own failure with its own set of problems.

Granted the o-line drop off had an impact.  This is where the OC needs to get really creative.

The similarities to Philly are there. When Reich and Defilippo left Doug first promoted his WR coach Grogh who flamed out 2 years later. He now is WR coach for the Giants after a few stops.  He also moved Press up to QB coach.  When Gogh left he had no OC, he had Press. Their offense then became predictable as the creative people were gone and those left got tied up defending play calling.  Their #2 pick all pro young QB regressed over that time.  It is hard to believe it can not be more similar, but that is just me.  Has Doug learned ?

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

Pedersen and Baalke BOTH need to go. End of discussion. One game doesn't change anything, it's about the body of work and that sucks.

---

Let me put it to you this way. 

The changes in production between 2022 and 2023  - and now the very different changes between 2023 and 2024 do not seem to align with the scenario in Philly you've compared them to. 

The loss of JBC seemed to have impact on the passing offense to a degree but so did other obvious variables like the disappearance of a viable run game which was directly linked to the OL performance. And at the end of the day the passing efficiency numbers between '22 and '23 were nearly identical. 

This year the Pederson/Taylor braintrust decided to push all their chips in on a downfield attack and it bit them in the rear end more than it clicked. Now it is showing some positive signs (has shown flashes prior to now as well) , but like you, I don't expect it to hold up against better defenses. 

But how is any of that similar to what happened in Philly? 

I just see Pederson's demise in Jax as its own failure with its own set of problems.

Granted the o-line drop off had an impact.  This is where the OC needs to get really creative.

The similarities to Philly are there. When Reich and Defilippo left Doug first promoted his WR coach Grogh who flamed out 2 years later. He now is WR coach for the Giants after a few stops.  He also moved Press up to QB coach.  When Gogh left he had no OC, he had Press. Their offense then became predictable as the creative people were gone and those left got tied up defending play calling.  Their #2 pick all pro young QB regressed over that time.  It is hard to believe it can not be more similar, but that is just me.  Has Doug learned ?

You seem to have ignored the role of the Owner's Men put in place to "consult" Doug on how to run the team and also insinuate that Press Taylor was ever the OC in Philly. Both are pertinent to disproving your assertions.

---

Let me put it to you this way. 

The changes in production between 2022 and 2023  - and now the very different changes between 2023 and 2024 do not seem to align with the scenario in Philly you've compared them to. 

The loss of JBC seemed to have impact on the passing offense to a degree but so did other obvious variables like the disappearance of a viable run game which was directly linked to the OL performance. And at the end of the day the passing efficiency numbers between '22 and '23 were nearly identical. 

This year the Pederson/Taylor braintrust decided to push all their chips in on a downfield attack and it bit them in the rear end more than it clicked. Now it is showing some positive signs (has shown flashes prior to now as well) , but like you, I don't expect it to hold up against better defenses. 

But how is any of that similar to what happened in Philly? 

I just see Pederson's demise in Jax as its own failure with its own set of problems.

Pederson's demise is because of Pederson.  Him and him alone.  

Baalke's failures are his alone as well.  

I don't know why people give so much leeway for Pederson, and yet are so quick to bury Baalke.  They both failed this team.  There's not much more to discuss.  

This is the "Offense" thread.  So, it's totally fine to point out the failures of the so called "offensive minded" HC that was supposed to get our Franchise QB up and running.  Instead, Lawrence has regressed since 2022.  

What happened in Philly is very similar to what we are seeing here.  The locker room has quit on Doug.  Did you see the video of the Locker Room Speech he gave after this win against the Patriots?  Nobody is really engaged with him.  On top of that, the QB peaked his first year and has regressed since then.  On top of that, the HC is no longer willing to take full control of the offense like he did the first year.  All of these are similar to Philly.  Is the song the exact same?  NO.  But the melody is.  It's not the same song, but it's the same tune, the same dance. 

The only good news about Doug's time here in Jax is that he at least hasn't completely washed out Lawrence.  But, I guarantee you that if Doug and his his coaches hang around for 2025, we'll be drafting another #1 QB in 2026 or 2027.  

Why let him continue to prove he's failing?  Let's just move on, shall we?

Edit:  And regarding the assertion that we didn't have a "viable run game" in 2023...  ETN ran for 1000 yards and played great all season.  Dude was a work horse.  The fact that some fans are so fast to [BLEEP] on ETN is beyond me.  Tank had promise, but they shut him down after his fumbles.  It was only ETN for basically the entire season, and he played hard.  Dude gave his soul for this team in 2023.

Lol.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Granted the o-line drop off had an impact.  This is where the OC needs to get really creative.

The similarities to Philly are there. When Reich and Defilippo left Doug first promoted his WR coach Grogh who flamed out 2 years later. He now is WR coach for the Giants after a few stops.  He also moved Press up to QB coach.  When Gogh left he had no OC, he had Press. Their offense then became predictable as the creative people were gone and those left got tied up defending play calling.  Their #2 pick all pro young QB regressed over that time.  It is hard to believe it can not be more similar, but that is just me.  Has Doug learned ?

You seem to have ignored the role of the Owner's Men put in place to "consult" Doug on how to run the team and also insinuate that Press Taylor was ever the OC in Philly. Both are pertinent to disproving your assertions.

The 2020 eagles show no one as OC. That is what I said above. The owner did not want Press as OC. Luri is a bit more aggressive, less patient and more involved compared to Kahn.

https://coaching-library.com/teams/phi/2020
 
These consultants you speak of are the same ones that advised the owner to move on from Doug after 2, 9-7 and a 4-11-1 record?  We are 2-5 now right? Let's see where we are at the end.

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

You seem to have ignored the role of the Owner's Men put in place to "consult" Doug on how to run the team and also insinuate that Press Taylor was ever the OC in Philly. Both are pertinent to disproving your assertions.

The 2020 eagles show no one as OC. That is what I said above. The owner did not want Press as OC. Luri is a bit more aggressive, less patient and more involved compared to Kahn.

https://coaching-library.com/teams/phi/2020
 
These consultants you speak of are the same ones that advised the owner to move on from Doug after 2, 9-7 and a 4-11-1 record?  We are 2-5 now right? Let's see where we are at the end.

Lurie is meddlesome like Jerry Jones and Roseman is more reptilian than Trent Baalke. Putting Mornhinweg in the room to look over Doug's shoulder was the beginning of the end. Wentz was the critical factor, once he got hurt two years in a row he was damaged goods and the Front Office wouldn't accept that Hurts was the better option. All in all, the front office has now run off Andy Reid and Doug Pederson, with Nick Sirianni joining them soon.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The 2020 eagles show no one as OC. That is what I said above. The owner did not want Press as OC. Luri is a bit more aggressive, less patient and more involved compared to Kahn.

https://coaching-library.com/teams/phi/2020
 
These consultants you speak of are the same ones that advised the owner to move on from Doug after 2, 9-7 and a 4-11-1 record?  We are 2-5 now right? Let's see where we are at the end.

Lurie is meddlesome like Jerry Jones and Roseman is more reptilian than Trent Baalke. Putting Mornhinweg in the room to look over Doug's shoulder was the beginning of the end. Wentz was the critical factor, once he got hurt two years in a row he was damaged goods and the Front Office wouldn't accept that Hurts was the better option. All in all, the front office has now run off Andy Reid and Doug Pederson, with Nick Sirianni joining them soon.

1 great decision, and another 1 coming soon...

The Reid firing was a mistake.  I remember when he was fired how badly I wanted him to be hired here.  And we just fired Mularkey...  I had my hair on fire to get Reid....  But instead we hired Gus "Sprinkles" Bradley.  

And the rest is history.

But it really doesn't matter because coaching is not that important, right?

---

Lurie is meddlesome like Jerry Jones and Roseman is more reptilian than Trent Baalke. Putting Mornhinweg in the room to look over Doug's shoulder was the beginning of the end. Wentz was the critical factor, once he got hurt two years in a row he was damaged goods and the Front Office wouldn't accept that Hurts was the better option. All in all, the front office has now run off Andy Reid and Doug Pederson, with Nick Sirianni joining them soon.

1 great decision, and another 1 coming soon...

The Reid firing was a mistake.  I remember when he was fired how badly I wanted him to be hired here.  And we just fired Mularkey...  I had my hair on fire to get Reid....  But instead we hired Gus "Sprinkles" Bradley.  

And the rest is history.

But it really doesn't matter because coaching is not that important, right?

It's very important, just behind player acquisition. But make no mistake, it's always second. I wanted Reid also, but it's likely he would've ruined his career if he came to this dumpster fire.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

1 great decision, and another 1 coming soon...

The Reid firing was a mistake.  I remember when he was fired how badly I wanted him to be hired here.  And we just fired Mularkey...  I had my hair on fire to get Reid....  But instead we hired Gus "Sprinkles" Bradley.  

And the rest is history.

But it really doesn't matter because coaching is not that important, right?

It's very important, just behind player acquisition. But make no mistake, it's always second. I wanted Reid also, but it's likely he would've ruined his career if he came to this dumpster fire.

That's loser mentality.  You're better than that.  I know you can't stand my opinions.  But there is hope.  This franchise isn't a dumpster fire.  We are just kinda slow.  I think if we clean house with the Front Office and Coaching Staff, we can really become somethin special.

We have good players all over the roster.  We just need a cohesive staff that can work together with a HC that is passionate enough to run the offense.  We suck now.  But we can be great next year.  I have faith.  It's gonna happen.  And I'll meet up with you in Gainsville or where-ever the hell we are next year for a home playoff game.

---

It's very important, just behind player acquisition. But make no mistake, it's always second. I wanted Reid also, but it's likely he would've ruined his career if he came to this dumpster fire.

That's loser mentality.  You're better than that.  I know you can't stand my opinions.  But there is hope.  This franchise isn't a dumpster fire.  We are just kinda slow.  I think if we clean house with the Front Office and Coaching Staff, we can really become somethin special.

We have good players all over the roster.  We just need a cohesive staff that can work together with a HC that is passionate enough to run the offense.  We suck now.  But we can be great next year.  I have faith.  It's gonna happen.  And I'll meet up with you in Gainsville or where-ever the hell we are next year for a home playoff game.

The issue with that is Khan has to make the decision on who to hire. He could even screw up the consultant hire and hire people Baalke has pre-approved. Then magically Baalke stays and on to another disappointing coach.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

---

It's very important, just behind player acquisition. But make no mistake, it's always second. I wanted Reid also, but it's likely he would've ruined his career if he came to this dumpster fire.

That's loser mentality.  You're better than that.  I know you can't stand my opinions.  But there is hope.  This franchise isn't a dumpster fire.  We are just kinda slow.  I think if we clean house with the Front Office and Coaching Staff, we can really become somethin special.

We have good players all over the roster.  We just need a cohesive staff that can work together with a HC that is passionate enough to run the offense.  We suck now.  But we can be great next year.  I have faith.  It's gonna happen.  And I'll meet up with you in Gainsville or where-ever the hell we are next year for a home playoff game.

I was speaking to when Bradley was hired. Now we're a snake house.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

That's loser mentality.  You're better than that.  I know you can't stand my opinions.  But there is hope.  This franchise isn't a dumpster fire.  We are just kinda slow.  I think if we clean house with the Front Office and Coaching Staff, we can really become somethin special.

We have good players all over the roster.  We just need a cohesive staff that can work together with a HC that is passionate enough to run the offense.  We suck now.  But we can be great next year.  I have faith.  It's gonna happen.  And I'll meet up with you in Gainsville or where-ever the hell we are next year for a home playoff game.

I was speaking to when Bradley was hired. Now we're a snake house.

I don't know what "a snake house" means.  It's not like Dave Caldwell was so much better.  Matter of fact, Baalke probably had better player acquisitions than Caldwell.  You may disagree.  But I think it could be argued one way or another.  Remember how bereft of talent we were back in those days??  It doesn't matter, anymore, really.  I don't know why we have to always argue.  All I know is that this front office and the coaching staff have to go.  I kept telling you guys last year that something wasn't right with this team.  I kept saying it over and over again.  And you guys didn't want to hear it.  

At least now we are all on the same page.  It's time to get Baalke out because no real HC will want to work for him because he's a complete cancer.  But it's been clear for the last 2 seasons that Pederson isn't willing to be a HC that controls the offense and create a winning culture.  The thing is, we have players that can get us beyond this mediocrity.  You look around the NFL and there are so many coaches that are willing to do the work to create the right culture.  Players come and go.  But the thing that sustains a franchise is the Front Office and the Head Coach.  We have neither.  

We won today, and it was a nice win.  But let's face it.  This front office and management staff isn't gonna get things done that need to be done.

---

If I had told you back in August that the Jags would get 190 all purpose yards in one game from Tank Bigsby and D'Ernest Johnson, you'd have told me to get my head examined.

But that just happened.

2024 Cap Hits:

Tank Bigsby - 1.2 million
D'Ernest Johnson 1.1 million

Tank being the best player on the roster is mind blowing indeed.

/sidesteps trap

not today, bucakaroo

---

O-Line has been serviceable all year.  And yet this was the 1st game we've actually been solid in the red zone...

I guess Baalke is the problem with Red Zone performance when the O-Line is competent.  Just saying this offense is inconsistent.  The talent is there.  The fact that we can't get the best out of these players is something that has needed to be considered for 2 seasons now.

This offense can be great under the proper coaching.

I...wut?

I think we're seeing a combination of synchronicity now that the unit has had a few months together and everyone knows just what to expect of each other, and the coaches understand what they can ask of them. We also have a distinct style on offense. ETN and Tank are two different styles, and I think Tank is a perfect fit for one cut and go style of running. It's decisive, it's methodical, it's easier. No stretch plays trying to get to sidelines, no tapdancing behind the line, linemen know they just need to punch a hole, and a moment later an RB will be cruising through it.

I will be interested to see if we keep this up once ETN is ready to return, or if he even gets significant reps once he's healthy again. There's certainly ability, but it seems like we were still guessing at how to best use it.

---

My goodness all this sounds familiar. 

The more I look at the previous troubles in Philly, the more concerned I get.  In 2017 Carson Wentz was an up and coming star. He had Frank Reich as an OC and Defilippo as a QB coach. Press was assistant QB coach.  The Eagles averaged 28+ points a game. After 2017 Reich and Defilippo left.  2018/2019 Grogh became OC, he had been WR coach and Press became QB coach. They averaged 22/24 ppg.  Grogh leaves in 2020 and curiously there was no OC.  Points per game again drop.  Carson Wentz was a casualty of all this.  The higher up Doug's coaching organization Press got the less they scored.  During that time doug stated play calling was not the issue. see link.

https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nf...em/173114/

This is hard for me to say as I Like Doug, but once again he will be facing a decision, this year or next.  Go get an up and coming creative offensive mind for OC or be looking for another opportunity to coach.  We had an above average but not elite coach with Jim Bob Cooter in 2023 that covered all this up.  He saw the writing on the wall and jumped the first chance he got. I am unsure whether it is Press or Doug that is the issue. They both appear to be very smart theoretically and a nice guys, but it appears they lacks the ability to create.  How many MBA's have you known in business that were smart as hell but operationally were a cluster (you insert adjective) ? 

Has Doug learned to overcome the same issues that brought him down before?  I really would feel bad if we sacrifice TL on the alter of Press....

The Philly stuff is what it is. 
But we aren't experiencing what they experienced. 

The 2024 offense stumbled and flailed while they implemented a radical shift in the passing attack but is showing signs of coming together now.  

Unfortunately - the stumbling and flailing was so bad I don't believe Doug or Press can save their jobs nor do I want them to.

Might be a bigger question for its own thread, but even if we turn this around and start winning against better competition, do you still say this?

---

I think we're seeing a combination of synchronicity now that the unit has had a few months together and everyone knows just what to expect of each other, and the coaches understand what they can ask of them. We also have a distinct style on offense. ETN and Tank are two different styles, and I think Tank is a perfect fit for one cut and go style of running. It's decisive, it's methodical, it's easier. No stretch plays trying to get to sidelines, no tapdancing behind the line, linemen know they just need to punch a hole, and a moment later an RB will be cruising through it.

I will be interested to see if we keep this up once ETN is ready to return, or if he even gets significant reps once he's healthy again. There's certainly ability, but it seems like we were still guessing at how to best use it.

---

The Philly stuff is what it is. 
But we aren't experiencing what they experienced. 

The 2024 offense stumbled and flailed while they implemented a radical shift in the passing attack but is showing signs of coming together now.  

Unfortunately - the stumbling and flailing was so bad I don't believe Doug or Press can save their jobs nor do I want them to.

Might be a bigger question for its own thread, but even if we turn this around and start winning against better competition, do you still say this?

Probably, yes. 
It's year three of this coach and QB tandem and they added talent to each offseason. 
Coming out of the gate in year 3 so pathetically incompetent feels unforgivable to me.
Yes, it was largely player error, and there was a new element added to the passing game, but when the errors are that prolonged and widespread, I have no choice but to look at the men supposedly preparing these players to execute the plays. 

I also think the better teams we are about to play will hang 35-50 points on this Jaguars defense.

---

I was speaking to when Bradley was hired. Now we're a snake house.

I don't know what "a snake house" means.  It's not like Dave Caldwell was so much better.  Matter of fact, Baalke probably had better player acquisitions than Caldwell.  You may disagree.  But I think it could be argued one way or another.  Remember how bereft of talent we were back in those days??  It doesn't matter, anymore, really.  I don't know why we have to always argue.  All I know is that this front office and the coaching staff have to go.  I kept telling you guys last year that something wasn't right with this team.  I kept saying it over and over again.  And you guys didn't want to hear it.  

At least now we are all on the same page.  It's time to get Baalke out because no real HC will want to work for him because he's a complete cancer.  But it's been clear for the last 2 seasons that Pederson isn't willing to be a HC that controls the offense and create a winning culture.  The thing is, we have players that can get us beyond this mediocrity.  You look around the NFL and there are so many coaches that are willing to do the work to create the right culture.  Players come and go.  But the thing that sustains a franchise is the Front Office and the Head Coach.  We have neither.  

We won today, and it was a nice win.  But let's face it.  This front office and management staff isn't gonna get things done that need to be done.

Baalke has a philosophy that places value on the wrong acquisitions. Then when he gets the value of the position right he takes a project (or famously, a guy coming off injury). Then he blames the coach for the fact that they are undermanned at critical positions. He's hissing in Khan's ear and I don't think there any real chance he gets fired. That's why Shad came out with the "best ever" line, because Wormtongue is all up in his ear.

It's been clear since Doug got here that he and his system quickly elevated a terrible franchise to mediocre. Without better players you don't go higher because, as we see continually this year, soft players get bullied by tough players. Remember, TRENT is the one who said "we have to get bigger and stronger" and then proceeded to spend free agent money on little guys and draft projects much higher than they should've been. In fact, without Mitch Morse being a cap casualty it's likely we're running Pillow Fortner back out there at center this year. Meanwhile, the PLAYERS have completely lost the Miami, Cleveland, Texans, and Bears games by not doing the most basic blocking, carrying, catching, and tackling expected of Pop Warner players. This team should be 5 and 2, and the coaches for all their faults put them in position to be there. Then you wanna say "the Oline has been fine all year" when anyone with a functioning brain can see that the tackles and right guard were HORRIFICALLY bad the first three weeks. Then they have 4 pretty good games and the offense looks much better but we lose because of other players doing dumb [BLEEP] like dropping relatively easy TD passes. 

At the same time that you're [BLEEP] about "player development" last year's draft class looks pretty darn good after a year with our terrible coaches, while players like Lloyd and Fortner suck.  Almost like you pick out something that is obviously and credibly wrong to base your opinions on. You can't give the credit to the players on one hand and place the blame on the coaches on the other when you feel like it. When the players are good players they play good, when they players aren't good they play iike that as well. 

It's pretty clear that you have a pretty active imagination creating what you think is going on, but it's just that, imagination.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I don't know what "a snake house" means.  It's not like Dave Caldwell was so much better.  Matter of fact, Baalke probably had better player acquisitions than Caldwell.  You may disagree.  But I think it could be argued one way or another.  Remember how bereft of talent we were back in those days??  It doesn't matter, anymore, really.  I don't know why we have to always argue.  All I know is that this front office and the coaching staff have to go.  I kept telling you guys last year that something wasn't right with this team.  I kept saying it over and over again.  And you guys didn't want to hear it.  

At least now we are all on the same page.  It's time to get Baalke out because no real HC will want to work for him because he's a complete cancer.  But it's been clear for the last 2 seasons that Pederson isn't willing to be a HC that controls the offense and create a winning culture.  The thing is, we have players that can get us beyond this mediocrity.  You look around the NFL and there are so many coaches that are willing to do the work to create the right culture.  Players come and go.  But the thing that sustains a franchise is the Front Office and the Head Coach.  We have neither.  

We won today, and it was a nice win.  But let's face it.  This front office and management staff isn't gonna get things done that need to be done.

Baalke has a philosophy that places value on the wrong acquisitions. Then when he gets the value of the position right he takes a project (or famously, a guy coming off injury). Then he blames the coach for the fact that they are undermanned at critical positions. He's hissing in Khan's ear and I don't think there any real chance he gets fired. That's why Shad came out with the "best ever" line, because Wormtongue is all up in his ear.

It's been clear since Doug got here that he and his system quickly elevated a terrible franchise to mediocre. Without better players you don't go higher because, as we see continually this year, soft players get bullied by tough players. Remember, TRENT is the one who said "we have to get bigger and stronger" and then proceeded to spend free agent money on little guys and draft projects much higher than they should've been. In fact, without Mitch Morse being a cap casualty it's likely we're running Pillow Fortner back out there at center this year. Meanwhile, the PLAYERS have completely lost the Miami, Cleveland, Texans, and Bears games by not doing the most basic blocking, carrying, catching, and tackling expected of Pop Warner players. This team should be 5 and 2, and the coaches for all their faults put them in position to be there. Then you wanna say "the Oline has been fine all year" when anyone with a functioning brain can see that the tackles and right guard were HORRIFICALLY bad the first three weeks. Then they have 4 pretty good games and the offense looks much better but we lose because of other players doing dumb [BLEEP] like dropping relatively easy TD passes. 

At the same time that you're [BLEEP] about "player development" last year's draft class looks pretty darn good after a year with our terrible coaches, while players like Lloyd and Fortner suck.  Almost like you pick out something that is obviously and credibly wrong to base your opinions on. You can't give the credit to the players on one hand and place the blame on the coaches on the other when you feel like it. When the players are good players they play good, when they players aren't good they play iike that as well. 

It's pretty clear that you have a pretty active imagination creating what you think is going on, but it's just that, imagination.

Just to play devils advocate you can't say baalke is so horrible but last year's draft class is good and we should be 5-2.

I think baalke is cheeks and Doug has lost his mojo so I think you and carp are both kinda right and the truth is somewhere in the middle of your respective POV's. I think they both need to go unless we miraculously somehow make the playoffs

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I think we're seeing a combination of synchronicity now that the unit has had a few months together and everyone knows just what to expect of each other, and the coaches understand what they can ask of them. We also have a distinct style on offense. ETN and Tank are two different styles, and I think Tank is a perfect fit for one cut and go style of running. It's decisive, it's methodical, it's easier. No stretch plays trying to get to sidelines, no tapdancing behind the line, linemen know they just need to punch a hole, and a moment later an RB will be cruising through it.

I will be interested to see if we keep this up once ETN is ready to return, or if he even gets significant reps once he's healthy again. There's certainly ability, but it seems like we were still guessing at how to best use it.

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Might be a bigger question for its own thread, but even if we turn this around and start winning against better competition, do you still say this?

Probably, yes. 
It's year three of this coach and QB tandem and they added talent to each offseason. 
Coming out of the gate in year 3 so pathetically incompetent feels unforgivable to me.
Yes, it was largely player error, and there was a new element added to the passing game, but when the errors are that prolonged and widespread, I have no choice but to look at the men supposedly preparing these players to execute the plays. 

I also think the better teams we are about to play will hang 35-50 points on this Jaguars defense.

Bah, here comes some more "quit"
Say it ain't so, joe

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