Man I'm so damn glad this [BLEEP] got flexed lol

---

If I may...

So if it's a player problem, but it's not the lack of talent, then what exactly is the player problem you speak of?  

I think many of us forget that these are not true "professionals" like in the real world.  These are kids playing a game.  They are not highly educated, highly trained, business professionals.  Hell, on the 53 man squad of these Jaguars, there's only 6 dudes 30 years old or older.  And the oldest dudes are only 32.

Most these kids are in their early to mid 20s.  20 year old kids aren't mature professionals.  Especially since they play a game for a living and many of them have been pretty much sheltered from everything most of their lives based on their talents as football players.

Coaches are absolutely important in focusing, motivating, and training these kids to be the best they can be.  Coaches at this level make the difference between 2-6 with your season over and 4-4 and still in the playoff hunt.  In my opinion, of course.

This isn't hard.

Players make mistakes and fail to execute assignments - and they do these things despite coaches drilling them on all of them during camp and practices.

Too much of that crap and you end up right about where we are. 

Combine that with talent gaps in a few key places and coaches that can't find ways to get better performance from the guys screwing up and you're exactly where we are.

We could go on and on trying to pin blame on different players or coaches - but at this point it is a complete organizational failure. They have a mountain of losses dating back to week 11 or 12 of last year from this.

This is the part we'll probably always fundamentally disagree with each other from here to eternity.  

I think these are kids that need the proper coaching to ensure they are executing.  While it's true that the players are ultimately the ones that need to execute on the field, I will continue to think that the way certain coaches develop, train, motivate, and set accountability and cultural standards is the difference between teams that are successful consistently, and teams like ours.

I agree with one thing you did say.  This is a complete organizational failure.  I've expressed my concerns since last year.  Baalke is definitely a problem, that's also become clear since last year.  We're just watching a meltdown happen in slow motion.  It's just all breaking down now that it's become pretty obvious.

---

https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/185101...915L-t18Xg

Worst defense by a long shot.

---

I'm not an NFL coach so I can't tell you all of the methodologies of the successful head coaches, but the good ones don't tend to experience stretches of 16 games wherein they can't get their starters to eliminate mistakes enough to win more than 20% of their games. 

I mean - it is literally their job to coach better performance out of these kids. That is not happening in Jacksonville right now.

I agree with you somewhat.  I think Pederson is probably fired during the bye week since I don't see any wins between now and then.  It's not always "fair" or "the right thing to do" in my opinion, but the Captain of the ship is always the one that has the ultimate responsibility and is always the one held most accountable.

I still think that it's more of a "player problem" rather than coaching, and it's not lack of talent.  I think that players will listen and respond better to their peers over the coaches.  When I say that players need to "call each other out" or hold each other accountable, it doesn't need to be a public thing.  I'm not sure how to motivate players to do it, and I don't think that the coaches know either.

Again when/if Pederson if fired during the bye week, who steps in as the interim of long term solution?

Back to the topic of this thread, I kind of hope that the Jaguars can keep it somewhat close and not lose in a huge blowout.  That being said I see a 42-10 type of game coming up that won't be pleasant.

This is kind of where I'm at, but I'll add some other thoughts on what I suspect may be at issue.  I think we have sufficient talent on the whole.  I think we have decent game day coaching in general.  It's not perfect, but it is sufficient.  I suspect it might be systems related in that you have a system for installing a gameplan in a given week or a system for pretty much everything a football team might do throughout the year (including having good situational play calling systems in place to avoid delays of game penalties after a big play which was a problem earlier in the season) and I think the systems may need an overhaul if only to break up monotony and obviously I have no way to know this to be the case in a widespread manner, but sometimes you just have to shake things up to grow.  Sometimes things get stale, the mind loses focus and it appears to be talent regression, but it's really loss of focus.  Ultimately, the person responsible for whatever systems are in place is the head coach so Doug certainly shoulders that blame and probably doesn't survive this, but we'll see.  Change doesn't always mean better.

On the flip side, I suspect there may be a lack of real player leadership in the locker room as Doug alluded to earlier in the year after a loss in a post game presser.  That's an indictment on some of the vets and potentially Trevor if this suspicion is indeed true as the QB should be one of the team's biggest player leaders.  I can't lay all the blame on him because I don't expect him even as QB to march into defensive team meetings and attempting to lay the law down.  There definitely needs to be vocal leader on defense who is also one of the better defensive players leading that side of the ball and setting the tone.  Do we have that?  I don't know.  It probably should be JHA based on age, contract and play level or possibly Oluokon but I'm not sure if either has vocal leader personality traits.  I'm not saying they don't, I just don't know.   Ventrell, Travon and Tyson could also eventually be candidates for that role if we indeed don't have that at the moment and again I don't know either way.  The fact that it's not clearly apparent that we do leads me to believe that we probably don't. The Armstead signing could have been an attempt to add another hardened vet and potential leader to the locker room, but you have to be playing well individually to really lead and he hasn't been for whatever reason.  It comes off inauthentic otherwise.  

Anyway, just some additional thoughts I had.  I believe it's a little bit of everything as I've been saying for a while now as have many others. A lack of focus, injuries, sporadic bad play from various individual players on both sides of the ball at various times (this covers the QB as well), a few bad/questionable PI calls against us that directly led to opposition points in closely contested games, the appearance of a lack of proper situational play calling systems (and maybe others) in place to avoid delay of game penalties, etc, etc...  I think those of us who are singularly focused on one particular issue or person being the culprit may be setting themselves up for a disappointment/reality check.

Ultimately Doug probably shoulders most of the blame here and if he goes I'm not sure how Trent stays, but as I mentioned above, change doesn't always mean better.  Ben Johnson may be an A+ play caller, but does he bring in smart, efficient organization level systems for play calling, play book installation, game plan installation and the bevy of other systems that a coach needs to have to run the team effectively at a high level.  You probably won't know that until he's in the building and then you're giving him at least 2 years and probably 3 or 4 to figure out if he does or not.  And what happens if he's not better as a HC and we find out the lack of player leadership is actually the bigger deal?  In the meantime, your new GM will have dismantled half the roster bringing in his guys and he may be worse at talent evaluation than the previous guy and we may be in worse shape roster wise before you realize it a couple of years down the road.  And don't think the roster being dismantled isn't happening in that scenario.  That's not how this works.  A new regime isn't resting their fate on the previous regime's guys.  Doug will have earned his firing if he is indeed let go, but will it wind up being the right decision?  Cue NH3's signature tag line.

---

Would you look at that? Nike wants to sponsor the Jags. 

---

You misspelled Swift.

It’s the Saquan show now and he will be this weeks fantasy football MVP

LOL, college was a fun time. I don't remember much of that, either.

Thank you for being the brain when mine takes the week off

---

Jags surprise. Jags have more problems with passing teams.

Go jags! Let’s try to enjoy football.

Biggest problem is it seems they(Iggles)'ve dug themselves out of their funk.

They aren't a juggernaut that should trample us, but by no means should they be taken lightly. I expect us to hang, and I will keep cheering for the laundry. There's so many bigger things to get my shorts in a wrinkle over than the outcome of a game.

---

I said in another thread before that the 4 games leading up to the bye week I didn't see a win, and I still feel the same way.  This team just has me perplexed.  It's not lack of talent, they have talented players that are capable of winning.  I don't buy the "coaching" narrative either.  It just seems to me that the team can't seem to put 4 quarters of solid football together.  If they can figure that out they can beat nearly any team.

I didn't expect them to beat the Packers, in fact I was expecting a blow out loss.  The one nice thing was seeing them keep the game close and having a chance to pull off a win.  I don't see the same thing happening against the Eagles.  I don't see a close game at all and expect a really bad loss.

I predict that Pederson is fired during the bye, but I have no idea who could step in as an interim HC.

I agree with the bolded above but when that problem lingers across two seasons for 16 games - don't you have to begin to look at coaching for being unable to correct it?

AB
SO
FREAKING
LUTELY

---

We’re going to make it close and then find some absolutely mind bending way to lose. As usual.

---

IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I agree with the bolded above but when that problem lingers across two seasons for 16 games - don't you have to begin to look at coaching for being unable to correct it?

In my opinion coaches can only "preach" so much to the team.  I think it comes down to players calling each other out and holding each other accountable.  How else can coaching correct the problem?  Bench players?

In part, yes. It's not 'preach'ing, it's understanding what pieces you have on the board and how to use them effectively. It's knowing when the right time is to pull the wild card out of your pocket and play it. It's understanding that your repeated attempts to employ your primary strategy aren't working, and finding a way to pivot.

It's week 9, and I still see us failing to hit those marks.

---

I agree with you somewhat.  I think Pederson is probably fired during the bye week since I don't see any wins between now and then.  It's not always "fair" or "the right thing to do" in my opinion, but the Captain of the ship is always the one that has the ultimate responsibility and is always the one held most accountable.

I still think that it's more of a "player problem" rather than coaching, and it's not lack of talent.  I think that players will listen and respond better to their peers over the coaches.  When I say that players need to "call each other out" or hold each other accountable, it doesn't need to be a public thing.  I'm not sure how to motivate players to do it, and I don't think that the coaches know either.

Again when/if Pederson if fired during the bye week, who steps in as the interim of long term solution?

Back to the topic of this thread, I kind of hope that the Jaguars can keep it somewhat close and not lose in a huge blowout.  That being said I see a 42-10 type of game coming up that won't be pleasant.

If I may...

So if it's a player problem, but it's not the lack of talent, then what exactly is the player problem you speak of?  

I think many of us forget that these are not true "professionals" like in the real world.  These are kids playing a game.  They are not highly educated, highly trained, business professionals.  Hell, on the 53 man squad of these Jaguars, there's only 6 dudes 30 years old or older.  And the oldest dudes are only 32.

Most these kids are in their early to mid 20s.  20 year old kids aren't mature professionals.  Especially since they play a game for a living and many of them have been pretty much sheltered from everything most of their lives based on their talents as football players.

Coaches are absolutely important in focusing, motivating, and training these kids to be the best they can be.  Coaches at this level make the difference between 2-6 with your season over and 4-4 and still in the playoff hunt.  In my opinion, of course.

There's a LOT wrong with your opening statements here. Just gonna leave it at that. 

Young teams especially need strong leadership. The current CFB system is not built for stable, systematic growth and development toward an NFL career. There's too much volatility in transfers, limited practice, different approaches in scheme, and the impatient approach many schools have toward the same gradual development of roster or identity.

Once you get to this level, part of the challenge is to develop and train, yes, but the bigger challenge is that if the coaches are not working under a unified system of development, approach and identity, the other teams that are already established in this area are going to force you into sloppiness and mismanagement issues. Coaching is VERY important. Leadership is even more important. Sometimes that onus falls primarily on coaches, sometimes the players take the yoke. When that leadership role is a vacuum, the team will spiral downward quickly.

---

I want to see more double tight end sets this game. That worked well at the end of last game.

---

I want to see more double tight end sets this game. That worked well at the end of last game.

That and also, with so many WR injuries, I'd really like to see ETN come back healthy this week.  I think we could use him in the passing game either out of the back field or even in the slot which he lined up at at least once during the pre-season on a quick slant TD pass as I recall.

---

I think I’m going to start tuning out when the jags defense is on the field. It’s just really hard to watch without getting extremely frustrated at this point. Any update on BTJ?

---

I think I’m going to start tuning out when the jags defense is on the field. It’s just really hard to watch without getting extremely frustrated at this point. Any update on BTJ?

Think it's just bruised ribs. MRI didn't show any other damage. Just sore.

May play this week.

---

I think I’m going to start tuning out when the jags defense is on the field. It’s just really hard to watch without getting extremely frustrated at this point. Any update on BTJ?

Think it's just bruised ribs. MRI didn't show any other damage. Just sore.

May play this week.

Found a photo of BTJ’s MRI

---

IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

This game has all the makings of a blowout win for the Eagles. The next 3 games against the Vikings, Lions and Texans are also likely losses. It's time to see what the young guys can do in order to decide priorities for next season. Keep Little and Hodges as starters on the OL and see what Prince can do at corner. He had a tough game last week, but the only way to improve is to get him out there. Everyone said Campbell was a bust after his rookie season. If Maason Smith is healthy, get him on the field; the same goes for his college teammate, Jordan Jefferson. At this point, there is nothing to lose. Finally, trade Cam Robinson for whatever you can get. Apparently he said he did not want to play last week if Little started ahead of him. Get him out of the locker room along with any other players with attitude issues or not giving 100%.

---

We’re a team that loses, but we’re not a team which gets blown out.

---

We’re a team that loses, but we’re not a team which gets blown out.

There was this thing that happened in buffalo that you may be repressing...

---

This game has all the makings of a blowout win for the Eagles. The next 3 games against the Vikings, Lions and Texans are also likely losses. It's time to see what the young guys can do in order to decide priorities for next season. Keep Little and Hodges as starters on the OL and see what Prince can do at corner. He had a tough game last week, but the only way to improve is to get him out there. Everyone said Campbell was a bust after his rookie season. If Maason Smith is healthy, get him on the field; the same goes for his college teammate, Jordan Jefferson. At this point, there is nothing to lose. Finally, trade Cam Robinson for whatever you can get. Apparently he said he did not want to play last week if Little started ahead of him. Get him out of the locker room along with any other players with attitude issues or not giving 100%.

Yeah. Unfortunately, this staff won't take that approach until we lose all or most of these games, IMO. 

Prince actually came in for Brown on Sunday after Doubs torched Brown multiple times. 
Prince did not fare any better. A little less separation, but he played 17 snaps and gave up a big first down down the sideline.

Where did you hear that about Cam?

---

I agree with you somewhat.  I think Pederson is probably fired during the bye week since I don't see any wins between now and then.  It's not always "fair" or "the right thing to do" in my opinion, but the Captain of the ship is always the one that has the ultimate responsibility and is always the one held most accountable.

I still think that it's more of a "player problem" rather than coaching, and it's not lack of talent.  I think that players will listen and respond better to their peers over the coaches.  When I say that players need to "call each other out" or hold each other accountable, it doesn't need to be a public thing.  I'm not sure how to motivate players to do it, and I don't think that the coaches know either.

Again when/if Pederson if fired during the bye week, who steps in as the interim of long term solution?

Back to the topic of this thread, I kind of hope that the Jaguars can keep it somewhat close and not lose in a huge blowout.  That being said I see a 42-10 type of game coming up that won't be pleasant.

This is kind of where I'm at, but I'll add some other thoughts on what I suspect may be at issue.  I think we have sufficient talent on the whole.  I think we have decent game day coaching in general.  It's not perfect, but it is sufficient.  I suspect it might be systems related in that you have a system for installing a gameplan in a given week or a system for pretty much everything a football team might do throughout the year (including having good situational play calling systems in place to avoid delays of game penalties after a big play which was a problem earlier in the season) and I think the systems may need an overhaul if only to break up monotony and obviously I have no way to know this to be the case in a widespread manner, but sometimes you just have to shake things up to grow.  Sometimes things get stale, the mind loses focus and it appears to be talent regression, but it's really loss of focus.  Ultimately, the person responsible for whatever systems are in place is the head coach so Doug certainly shoulders that blame and probably doesn't survive this, but we'll see.  Change doesn't always mean better.

On the flip side, I suspect there may be a lack of real player leadership in the locker room as Doug alluded to earlier in the year after a loss in a post game presser.  That's an indictment on some of the vets and potentially Trevor if this suspicion is indeed true as the QB should be one of the team's biggest player leaders.  I can't lay all the blame on him because I don't expect him even as QB to march into defensive team meetings and attempting to lay the law down.  There definitely needs to be vocal leader on defense who is also one of the better defensive players leading that side of the ball and setting the tone.  Do we have that?  I don't know.  It probably should be JHA based on age, contract and play level or possibly Oluokon but I'm not sure if either has vocal leader personality traits.  I'm not saying they don't, I just don't know.   Ventrell, Travon and Tyson could also eventually be candidates for that role if we indeed don't have that at the moment and again I don't know either way.  The fact that it's not clearly apparent that we do leads me to believe that we probably don't. The Armstead signing could have been an attempt to add another hardened vet and potential leader to the locker room, but you have to be playing well individually to really lead and he hasn't been for whatever reason.  It comes off inauthentic otherwise.  

Anyway, just some additional thoughts I had.  I believe it's a little bit of everything as I've been saying for a while now as have many others. A lack of focus, injuries, sporadic bad play from various individual players on both sides of the ball at various times (this covers the QB as well), a few bad/questionable PI calls against us that directly led to opposition points in closely contested games, the appearance of a lack of proper situational play calling systems (and maybe others) in place to avoid delay of game penalties, etc, etc...  I think those of us who are singularly focused on one particular issue or person being the culprit may be setting themselves up for a disappointment/reality check.

Ultimately Doug probably shoulders most of the blame here and if he goes I'm not sure how Trent stays, but as I mentioned above, change doesn't always mean better.  Ben Johnson may be an A+ play caller, but does he bring in smart, efficient organization level systems for play calling, play book installation, game plan installation and the bevy of other systems that a coach needs to have to run the team effectively at a high level.  You probably won't know that until he's in the building and then you're giving him at least 2 years and probably 3 or 4 to figure out if he does or not.  And what happens if he's not better as a HC and we find out the lack of player leadership is actually the bigger deal?  In the meantime, your new GM will have dismantled half the roster bringing in his guys and he may be worse at talent evaluation than the previous guy and we may be in worse shape roster wise before you realize it a couple of years down the road.  And don't think the roster being dismantled isn't happening in that scenario.  That's not how this works.  A new regime isn't resting their fate on the previous regime's guys.  Doug will have earned his firing if he is indeed let go, but will it wind up being the right decision?  Cue NH3's signature tag line.

The part in bold is what I'm talking about when I say it comes down to the players.  They have no peer leadership and for whatever reason(s) coaches aren't getting through to them.  No one is holding players accountable for failing to do their job(s).

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

We’re a team that loses, but we’re not a team which gets blown out.

There was this thing that happened in buffalo that you may be repressing...

---

This game has all the makings of a blowout win for the Eagles. The next 3 games against the Vikings, Lions and Texans are also likely losses. It's time to see what the young guys can do in order to decide priorities for next season. Keep Little and Hodges as starters on the OL and see what Prince can do at corner. He had a tough game last week, but the only way to improve is to get him out there. Everyone said Campbell was a bust after his rookie season. If Maason Smith is healthy, get him on the field; the same goes for his college teammate, Jordan Jefferson. At this point, there is nothing to lose. Finally, trade Cam Robinson for whatever you can get. Apparently he said he did not want to play last week if Little started ahead of him. Get him out of the locker room along with any other players with attitude issues or not giving 100%.

Yeah. Unfortunately, this staff won't take that approach until we lose all or most of these games, IMO. 

Prince actually came in for Brown on Sunday after Doubs torched Brown multiple times. 
Prince did not fare any better. A little less separation, but he played 17 snaps and gave up a big first down down the sideline.

Where did you hear that about Cam?

Mikey Dempsey on 1010, he said Cam was not happy and Boselli yesterday said Cam wasn't involved at all with the oline when they were on the sidelines and it was weird.

---