Remember, you were "trying" to keep this discussion strictly about Peterson, but on 2 separate responses you single-handed created separate responses insulated I am defending Pererson's actions. Talk about being a hypocrite, and a wrong hypocrite at that.


Then you said because I was able to relate to this situation, that you automatically INCORRECTLY thought I was abused. You were called out for that. That's the agenda you are pushing.


For whatever reason, now you think I cant read. Either you are backtracking on what you said, or again is resorting to sour grapes for getting called out.

I never said you were abused. For the 5th time, I stated if you had been beaten like AP's 4 year old then your parents abused you. I don't know how much clearer I can be. Not sure what more I can say for you to understand.


Yes, I said after that it would be best to keep this about AP and his situation, but you keep saying I said something I didn't so here I am re-explaining it but it is obvious you'll never comprehend it.

---

Lol, not even close.  If I was a jerk when I was a kid, so if my parents decided to spank me so I remember not to do it again...so bet it.  I learned from it and moved on.  I am an educated enough person to look back on what happened as an adult, and I'm ok with it. 

 

I may be in the minority, but my parents spanked me for a reason.  They didnt beat me up, they did it as a tool to learn.  I also spent time in my room, time in the corner, things taken away, etc....it was just one of the many tools.

 

Too many of you are taking a mild spanking that what I believe most parents give, and making it out to be nightly beatings.

Why respond to me? I specifically said beating. 

---

I never said I deserved it but my point is it was just temporary pain and it taught me what I was doing was wrong.


Now there are certainly more ways I could have learned that lesson but you can't tell someone how to parent their kids as long as they don't go over that permanent injury or hospitalization line.

You are right I cannot tell other parents how to treat their children but I can sure think less of them as humans. 

---

You are right I cannot tell other parents how to treat their children but I can sure think less of them as humans. 

 

well thats free will, you can think less of a person for how they raise their kids, how they dress, how they speak... or anything really.. thats entirely up to you.

---

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Do you understand the phrase 'peer reviewed'?

 

So what if there are peer reviewed journal entries that disagree with your peer reviewed journal entries?

 

Are Spanking Injunctions Scientifically Supported?

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/view...ontext=lcp

 

 

I'm sure you won't read that, though.

---

So what if there are peer reviewed journal entries that disagree with your peer reviewed journal entries?

 

Are Spanking Injunctions Scientifically Supported?

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/view...ontext=lcp

 

 

I'm sure you won't read that, though.

Peer reviewing is done to verify the validity of not only the conclusions but also the methods used in the research. Leaning more towards the methods used in the research. Some research can have conclusions reached from it and some are very cut and dry. It all depends on the type of research and the type of field the research occurs in.  

 

Aside from that, spanking is not the same thing as beating/whooping/whipping whatever you want to call it. Kids, defenseless humans, should not be hit with weapons.

 

As useless as they are it's anecdote time. I went to catholic school in Jax growing up. I was paddled and forced to kneel on pencils in front of class for minor "offenses". To this day, I hate those people that did that. They are terrible, awful, despicable people in my opinion. My grandfather made my father pick his own switches and beat him with them. My father only ever spanked me. Never beat me, never punched me, never hit me with weapons no matter how much of a punk kid I was (and I was at times). He was better than his father because he taught me the meaning of being a man without being violent with me. Taught me that emotions are not linked with violence, that violence is not a good thing, violence is not love. Ever.

---

I'm well aware of what peer reviewed means. Not sure what the point of that paragraph was.

 

I never said spanking is the same as beating/whooping/whipping nor have I supported beating/whooping/whipping. Not sure why you are quoting me on that.

---

I'm well aware of what peer reviewed means. Not sure what the point of that paragraph was.

 

I never said spanking is the same as beating/whooping/whipping nor have I supported beating/whooping/whipping. Not sure why you are quoting me on that.

I was pointing out what a peer reviewing was. It's not group think or the like. I was just clarifying it is all.... 

 

My apologies for linking with you personally due to the quoting the second part was not directed at you and should have been posted in a stand alone comment. I see that now.

---

So what if there are peer reviewed journal entries that disagree with your peer reviewed journal entries?
 
I'm sure you won't read that, though.

No, I won't. I will browse parts of it, and it doesn't disagree with them at all - that journal entry is very specific in its scope. It's looking only at spanking, which it defines very strictly as "physically non-injurious [...] and [...] administered with an opened hand to the extremities or buttocks".

I wouldn't argue against very controlled use of spanking by that definition in certain circumstances. What AP did, and what a lot of people are advocating in this thread, goes a long way beyond that.

The journal entry also specifically limits itself in a number of other ways - to spanking in the most appropriate situations, for example, and comparing with what would happen under an outright spanking prohibition without parents being trained in other approaches - where spanking is taken away as an option without any alternative being provided. You, having read the article, no doubt, will have noted that in their analysis of Gershoff's paper the main reason they give for being concerned about its results in this case is that it includes more extreme forms of punishment than open-hand spanking, including spanking with an implement, slapping in the face, and beating with a stick (exactly what AP did in this case and what some people are defending him for).

They also raise some methodological problems with their own study (one of the advantages of peer review is that it becomes more important to identify and acknowledge the flaws in your own studies rather than waiting for someone else to do so), including the fact that there's very little data comparing the specific definitions of spanking they're working with to a complete absence of said spanking, and the same-source problem, where a parent is responsible for providing data on spanking frequency and causes/effects, with the result that they're likely to overexaggerate the bad behaviour of the child prior to the punishment and the corrective effect in order to justify the spanking.

They certainly don't come to a conclusion that all forms of corporal punishment are appropriate and undamaging, so I wouldn't say it actually disagrees with the peer reviewed studies I cited (not that I cited them - someone else did - but let's not let accuracy get in the way of things here). It actually uses them as sources, cutting into their data to try to find data for their heavily slimmed down question.

I don't think I'm in favour of a blanket ban on spanking as defined in that paper, though it should be a last resort, not a first port of call. I am in favour of a blanket ban on more extreme forms of corporal punishment, where the evidence is very much stronger against it.

Edit: Incidentally, the Roberts study that provides a lot of the evidence used by the paper you linked is very specific in terms of how spanking should be used, and looks at a best-case usage of spanking which includes its use:

* Only with behaviourally difficult children
* Only after non-compliance with parental instructions and a timeout

This does not represent the majority usage of spanking (of any sort) in most countries.

All of which is fine, because that's what the paper is looking at - whether best-case spanking is something that should be banned.

---

Exactly. You don't understand how any of these things work.


Ironically, you're pretty much giving us a textbook example of confirmation bias at work, though.

 

Yeah, 6 years working in Industrial research doing the peer-review that my Master's degree qualifies me for taught me absolutely everything I need to know about how the scam works to get the answers you want. And then I walked away disillusioned that so much of what we do in life is based on the idea that research gives us answers when the truth is that it only gives us insight into the minds of the researchers. And then I sit back and laugh at people who base their whole lives on what those researchers have told them instead of looking at the world around them outside the ivory tower and adapting to reality. But, hey, you guys know best.

 

Agent K: "1500 years ago everyone knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago everyone knew that the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago you knew that humans were alone in the universe. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

 

For some it's only what the researchers have told them, for good or ill.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Peer reviewing is done to verify the validity of not only the conclusions but also the methods used in the research. Leaning more towards the methods used in the research. Some research can have conclusions reached from it and some are very cut and dry. It all depends on the type of research and the type of field the research occurs in.  

 

Aside from that, spanking is not the same thing as beating/whooping/whipping whatever you want to call it. Kids, defenseless humans, should not be hit with weapons.

 

As useless as they are it's anecdote time. I went to catholic school in Jax growing up. I was paddled and forced to kneel on pencils in front of class for minor "offenses". To this day, I hate those people that did that. They are terrible, awful, despicable people in my opinion. My grandfather made my father pick his own switches and beat him with them. My father only ever spanked me. Never beat me, never punched me, never hit me with weapons no matter how much of a punk kid I was (and I was at times). He was better than his father because he taught me the meaning of being a man without being violent with me. Taught me that emotions are not linked with violence, that violence is not a good thing, violence is not love. Ever.

 

But we've been told that your father is an evil man who abused you by some very intelligent and highly qualified people in this thread. It's almost like your experience doesn't square with their dictates, but surely that can't be possible, for their words are always the very fabric of reality.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yeah, 6 years working in Industrial research doing the peer-review that my Master's degree qualifies me for taught me absolutely everything I need to know about how the scam works to get the answers you want.

Peer review has nothing to do with getting the answers you want or not getting the answers you want.

So yeah, it appears that six years working in industrial research taught you very little.

Your complaints appear to be with cases where peer review was not carried out or was ineffective. Avoiding peer review is one of the sure signs that research is being done with answers in mind, right up there with concealing methodology and/or attempting to conceal flaws in that methodology (as pointed out above, plenty of research in this field goes a long way to identifying flaws in its own methodology because that's something that well instituted peer review encourages).

But we've been told that your father is an evil man who abused you by some very intelligent and highly qualified people in this thread. It's almost like your experience doesn't square with their dictates, but surely that can't be possible, for their words are always the very fabric of reality.

Okay, I take it back. Apparently six years working in industrial research taught you how to construct some awesome straw man arguments, because I'm pretty sure nobody has told us that. If they have, I'd love you to point it out so I can mock them. But we both know you won't do that.

---

But we've been told that your father is an evil man who abused you by some very intelligent and highly qualified people in this thread. It's almost like your experience doesn't square with their dictates, but surely that can't be possible, for their words are always the very fabric of reality.

12 pages and can't find anyone that has said spanking is child abuse.......

---

But we've been told that your father is an evil man who abused you by some very intelligent and highly qualified people in this thread. It's almost like your experience doesn't square with their dictates, but surely that can't be possible, for their words are always the very fabric of reality.

Do what now? No body in this thread has said spanking does those things? I think you are taking a very defensive stance and confusing what people are actually saying. 

 

I don't like spanking. Personally I don't think you should hit a child for any reason. I also won't call the cops on parents for "spanking normally". Nobody is arguing against a parents "right" to spank their child. People are however, supporting whipping and beatings and the use of weapons in this thread. Or using the "it was done to me excuse" My anecdote was only to show that the cycle of violence is not a necessity and that strong fathers can break the cycle and instill a different mentality in their child. 

---

I never said you were abused. For the 5th time, I stated if you had been beaten like AP's 4 year old then your parents abused you. I don't know how much clearer I can be. Not sure what more I can say for you to understand.


Yes, I said after that it would be best to keep this about AP and his situation, but you keep saying I said something I didn't so here I am re-explaining it but it is obvious you'll never comprehend it.

 

Dude, you are such a liar, you might want to stop while you are ahead.

 

Go back to response #120. You insinuated that I was abused based off of how I described my whippings, I said I wasnt.

 

Maybe you are right after all, I dont comprehend liars too well. 

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Go back to response #120. You insinuated that I was abused based off of how I described my whippings, I said I wasnt.

 

He really didn't.  He said:

 

 

<div>
What Peterson did was abuse. There is no need for that level of punishment to a 4 year old. And if your parents did what Peterson did then they abused you.


 

</div>

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

He really didn't.  He said:

 

 

He did, plus this quote below.

 

Then to what end? Open wounds are fine? Bruises from neck down are fine? Injured scrotum no problem? That's abuse. As a society we should strive to be better.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

I was whipped with a belt that left welps that cleared the next day. Im light skinned so they were easy to show.  I never got whipped with a branch, or extension cord. My parents would never take it to that level, and it was a quick 3 or 4 whips. That was followed by either apologizing for what I did, or an explanation of what NOT to do the next time to avoid another whipping.

 

The message got through to me. 

I feel ya...check out my family

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdDegaHfuXQ

---

Blakes Life Matters

I feel ya...check out my family

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdDegaHfuXQ

 

Bland humor at its finest.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

12 pages and can't find anyone that has said spanking is child abuse.......

 

Exactly.  I enjoy a little spanking now and then...

---