That's a ridiculous position. It doesn't matter where the control comes from there's going to be control. Going to live in the woods like Ted Kaczynski isn't a solution.

 

That's where me and you philosophically disagree, it always matters where the control comes from.

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That's where me and you philosophically disagree, it always matters where the control comes from.

 

Because you're begging to have your portion of control taken away.

 

Government is control of the people. When you get rid of government you get big corporate control and that's all you get.

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Here's the difference when the free market lies you can protest them by not purchasing their products. You can have the member of the board replace the CEO that is stealing or lying. Competition will snuff out a company that is making bad products and lying about it.

 

When Government is in charge there is no competition, there is no withholding your support and sending your money else where, there is no board replacing them, and it's all at the threat of force that you must participate.

 

That's the difference, in the free market I can choose to go without a product or service, I'm not allowed to choose to go without government.

 

What happens when these businesses get together and conspire against you? You may "choose" to ride your bicycle when gas prices are too high, but the companies that you haven't considered are still using them. What will you do when all of the water companies get together and charge too much for water? Even if you find a way to survive, the cost of everything you use will increase too. You aren't "choosing" when everyone works together, and there's no reason to believe that they wont do that.

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What happens when these businesses get together and conspire against you? You may "choose" to ride your bicycle when gas prices are too high, but the companies that you haven't considered are still using them. What will you do when all of the water companies get together and charge too much for water? Even if you find a way to survive, the cost of everything you use will increase too. You aren't "choosing" when everyone works together, and there's no reason to believe that they wont do that.

 

Don't worry, JNG, *THE FREE MARKET* will take care of the problem. *THE FREE MARKET* makes it impossible for big business to collude. That's why *THE FREE MARKET* is so magic. It just works, just like it did in the roaring 20's before FDR came along and caused the Great Depression.

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What happens when these businesses get together and conspire against you? You may "choose" to ride your bicycle when gas prices are too high, but the companies that you haven't considered are still using them. What will you do when all of the water companies get together and charge too much for water? Even if you find a way to survive, the cost of everything you use will increase too. You aren't "choosing" when everyone works together, and there's no reason to believe that they wont do that.

If we want to go off into hypothetical land I'll play;


What good would it do water companies to overprice their product? A resource that replenishes itself in nature, a resource that is 100% treatable by anyone with a little effort. You don't buy water from a utility company you buy the convince of it treated into your housing pipes, you pay for it bottled and cold, you pay for it disposed down sewage pipes but water is free.


What about people in the desert, well if they can't pay they wouldn't live in the desert gasp they might have to relocate!


The point is the market is simply people offering services and prices at a cost that other people are willing to pay, charge to much and you go out of business.


Now government on the other hand is third parties that make nothing produce nothing and sell nothing dictating what you must produce, purchase and how much.

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That's where me and you philosophically disagree, it always matters where the control comes from.

 

I own way more shares in those evil corporations than I'll ever be able to own in the government.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonk...-somalias/


Free market again^^

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonk...-somalias/


Free market again^^

 

Baloney, pregnant women without insurance could apply for pregnancy medicaid long before the ACA. 

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If we want to go off into hypothetical land I'll play;


What good would it do water companies to overprice their product? A resource that replenishes itself in nature, a resource that is 100% treatable by anyone with a little effort. You don't buy water from a utility company you buy the convince of it treated into your housing pipes, you pay for it bottled and cold, you pay for it disposed down sewage pipes but water is free.


What about people in the desert, well if they can't pay they wouldn't live in the desert gasp they might have to relocate!


The point is the market is simply people offering services and prices at a cost that other people are willing to pay, charge to much and you go out of business.


Now government on the other hand is third parties that make nothing produce nothing and sell nothing dictating what you must produce, purchase and how much.

 

You're missing the point.

 

More people can't fend for themselves, and they don't know how to do the things you just mentioned. Besides, I used water as an example, but feel free to interchange any important resource. Gas and oil being the most-likely to affect you. You pretend like people can just move where it's better. If the oil companies decided to quadruple the cost of gas, where would you be? Do you think you'd be the only one moving closer to work? Are there enough homes to house all of the people moving into the city? The cost of those houses with demand increasing? If you chose to stay where you are, are there jobs that pay enough to support your family? What about the cost of food and supplies now that gas has increased and they're shipping it to your home (where it's further away)? 

 

Your argument is ideal when taken at face value, but it falls on its face when you delve deeper into it. 

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You're missing the point.


More people can't fend for themselves, and they don't know how to do the things you just mentioned. Besides, I used water as an example, but feel free to interchange any important resource. Gas and oil being the most-likely to affect you the most. You pretend like people can just move where it's better. If the oil companies decided to quadruple the cost of gas, where would you be? Do you think you'd be the only one moving closer to work? Are there another homes to house all of the people moving into the city? The cost of those houses with demand increasing? If you chose to stay where you are, are there jobs that pay enough to support your family? What about the cost of food and supplies now that gas has increased and they're shipping it to your home (where it's further away)?


Your argument is ideal when taken at face value, but it falls on its face when you delve deeper into it.

Your all over the place, first of all it's the free market that drills the oil, treats the oil, sends it to the gas station, and then sells it to you. If they quadruple the cost people can't purchase as much and they lose money, that's economics 101 there's a balance between supply and demand, price has nothing to do with government.

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I own way more shares in those evil corporations than I'll ever be able to own in the government.

 

Unless you're wealthy enough to own a significant amount of those shares then your ownership of some small amount is much less meaningful than your share of the government through your vote.

 

If you are wealthy enough to own significant amounts then you get plenty of response from the government too. So either way your point is wrong.

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Unless you're wealthy enough to own a significant amount of those shares then your ownership of some small amount is much less meaningful than your share of the government through your vote.

 

If you are wealthy enough to own significant amounts then you get plenty of response from the government too. So either way your point is wrong.

Homie, I will gladly give you my vote in exchange for the equivalent $ value of Flsprtsgd's shares of evil corporations (and I don't even know how much in equities he owns).  

IMO public companies are generally more transparent than the govt/politicians.  Since 2008, my vote for executive leadership of the US has been worthless to me. If the B.O.D. of a pub co that I own changes direction and I don't like the way the stock is performing, I can sell it instantly and not have to wait 4 yrs. If I really don't like it, I can legally short it and potentially benefit from poor management.  I'm pretty sure the equivalent of an individual voter instantly shorting the executive branch of the govt is treasonous and not a realistic option.

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Kaishakunin for hire.

* (disclaimer) If you think I'm serious, hit yourself in the face w/ a hammer.

 

Your all over the place, first of all it's the free market that drills the oil, treats the oil, sends it to the gas station, and then sells it to you. If they quadruple the cost people can't purchase as much and they lose money, that's economics 101 there's a balance between supply and demand, price has nothing to do with government.

 

You don't even know your own argument.

 

When they control supply, they control demand. Limit supply, demand and prices increase.

 

If these companies conspired, like mentioned earlier, then the supply / demand model wouldn't be totally applicable. They'd still make their money but on less expended resources. There's no reason to believe one company couldn't own everything, either. Government doesn't have a factor in that equation until you remove them entirely, then imagine what a corporate oligarchy would do without any threat of legal action. People will not stop using oil / gas, Eric. 

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You don't even know your own argument.

 

When they control supply, they control demand. Limit supply, demand and prices increase.

 

If these companies conspired, like mentioned earlier, then the supply / demand model wouldn't be totally applicable. They'd still make their money but on less expended resources. There's no reason to believe one company couldn't own everything, either. Government doesn't have a factor in that equation until you remove them entirely, then imagine what a corporate oligarchy would do without any threat of legal action. People will not stop using oil / gas, Eric. 

 

Who the hell's talking about Anarchy!?

 

You made two examples of where we need government to control cost, one was water, where I pointed out water is free, you pay for someone to treat it and send into your house via pipes. The second was oil, which is a commodity directly effected by supply and demand. Now you're suggesting one big company can control the flow or demand of one of the most sought after natural resources to man. It's simply not true, the federal government does NOTHING to control the price of gas, they only influence the price you pay in the form of taxes.

 

It's why crude oil is dropping faster then rocks in the water and it's expected to fall to $50 a barrel there's not enough demand, not because government is doing something different, heck government is trying to slow down oil production and they're about as successful as a fish swimming up river. The market not government sets prices, even the big companies are beholden to what the consumer will pay.

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You don't even know your own argument.

 

When they control supply, they control demand. Limit supply, demand and prices increase.

 

If these companies conspired, like mentioned earlier, then the supply / demand model wouldn't be totally applicable. They'd still make their money but on less expended resources. There's no reason to believe one company couldn't own everything, either. Government doesn't have a factor in that equation until you remove them entirely, then imagine what a corporate oligarchy would do without any threat of legal action. People will not stop using oil / gas, Eric. 

 

Just a correction, they don't control demand, they control supply which can be manipulated to control price, but demand is something separate.

 

However, there is a very low price elasticity of demand for oil, which means that changes in price don't change demand very much, and if suddenly gas were $5 per gallon almost as much of it would be demanded as there would be demanded when it's $3 per gallon.

 

However, there a significant political pressures on oil supply that keep its price relatively low in the USA in spite of the fact that there's a lot of money to be made raising its price.

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Does Eric really think a place like McDonald's would quickly go out of business if there was a Free Market?

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For a free market to work, you'd have to basically live in a utopia free of greed. The problem is, utopia's are not achievable, and many people have ill-intentions.

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For a free market to work, you'd have to basically live in a utopia free of accept that everyone is greedy and will always act in their own best interest.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Misquoting me? K.

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Misquoting me? K.

 

Nah, just FTFY.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato