I get plenty of flack for putting my faith in the free market over government "regulation" and this is a perfect example of WHY.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecar...he-public/

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I get plenty of flack for putting my faith in the free market over government "regulation" and this is a perfect example of WHY.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecar...he-public/

 

Or the worthless media who hid it for Obama or the lying academia who twist and subvert the research to push their own personal preferences for how our society should operate. It's almost like they have zero scruples when it comes to "the fundamental transformation of our society."

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I get plenty of flack for putting my faith in the free market over government "regulation" and this is a perfect example of WHY.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecar...he-public/

 

Could you expand on how this article shows that "the free market" is somehow more trustworthy than government?

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Could you expand on how this article shows that "the free market" is somehow more trustworthy than government?

 

I think what he posted is anecdotal evidence that sometimes the people who run the government lie to us.   Of course, the people who run the free market never lie to us, so advantage, free market. 

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I think what he posted is anecdotal evidence that sometimes the people who run the government lie to us.   Of course, the people who run the free market never lie to us, so advantage, free market. 

 

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that there's something there proving that "the free market" (that results in things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Elk_Ri...ical_spill ) is somehow more trustworthy than the people who actually get elected to office by vote.

 

You have the floor, Eric.

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I think what he posted is anecdotal evidence that sometimes the people who run the government lie to us.   Of course, the people who run the free market never lie to us, so advantage, free market. 

 

I'm sorry that the guys you support just called you all idiots for going along with them. Sometimes the mask slips and you get a healthy dose of perspective.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm sorry that the guys you support just called you all idiots for going along with them. Sometimes the mask slips and you get a healthy dose of perspective.

 

What makes you think I support them?   The world is not simply divided into liberal democrats and conservative republicans, my friend.  It's a lot more complicated than that. 

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What makes you think I support them?   The world is not simply divided into liberal democrats and conservative republicans, my friend.  It's a lot more complicated than that. 

 

The more disturbing part is his complete lack of perspective precludes him from even understanding who the guy is calling an idiot.

 

I don't know a liberal who would believe that making a program that Frankensteins federal requirement to buy private market for-profit insurance is somehow free. Liberals inherently understood that Obamacare is a completely wrong turn and is a gift to big corporate money that currently owns the government, and won't stop owning the government and won't give up governmental control no matter how hard anyone thinks they're voting for "smaller government."

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I think what he posted is anecdotal evidence that sometimes the people who run the government lie to us.   Of course, the people who run the free market never lie to us, so advantage, free market. 

 

That's what GM wants us to believe.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

I think what he posted is anecdotal evidence that sometimes the people who run the government lie to us.   Of course, the people who run the free market never lie to us, so advantage, free market. 

 

Here's the difference when the free market lies you can protest them by not purchasing their products. You can have the member of the board replace the CEO that is stealing or lying. Competition will snuff out a company that is making bad products and lying about it.

 

When Government is in charge there is no competition, there is no withholding your support and sending your money else where, there is no board replacing them, and it's all at the threat of force that you must participate.

 

That's the difference, in the free market I can choose to go without a product or service, I'm not allowed to choose to go without government.

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Here's the difference when the free market lies you can protest them by not purchasing their products. You can have the member of the board replace the CEO that is stealing or lying. Competition will snuff out a company that is making bad products and lying about it.

 

When Government is in charge there is no competition, there is no withholding your support and sending your money else where, there is no board replacing them, and it's all at the threat of force that you must participate.

 

That's the difference, in the free market I can choose to go without a product or service, I'm not allowed to choose to go without government.

 

I have to hand it to you, Eric, your delusions truly know no bounds.

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I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that there's something there proving that "the free market" (that results in things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Elk_Ri...ical_spill ) is somehow more trustworthy than the people who actually get elected to office by vote.

 

You have the floor, Eric.

 

I didn't say the free market was more trust worthy, I said this is an example of WHY you can never trust government certainly not to the degree you promote. Your solution is to give government more power over the health care system, while completely ignoring they intentionally lied about everything they've said before and pulled a good old fashion switch and bait on the public.

 

Remember Obama and his administration, knowingly lied to everyone involved in order to pass what they believed to be good legislation. Now we're stuck with it.

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I have to hand it to you, Eric, your delusions truly know no bounds.

 

What have I said that is delusional? Are you forced to purchase products or services in the free market? Are you force to financial contribute to someone in the free market? Are you free to withhold your financial support from the government when they've been exposed misleading the public?

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What have I said that is delusional? Are you forced to purchase products or services in the free market? Are you force to financial contribute to someone in the free market? Are you free to withhold your financial support from the government when they've been exposed misleading the public?

 

You have no more significant amount of power over any large corporation than an ant has over you.

 

If you participate in society you're stuck supporting big business, and since you're here on the Jaguars message board it's already clear that you do.

 

You drive? Big oil and big automotive and all the BS that come with those.

 

You eat? Big agribusiness at the least and probably super huge corporations like Pepsi or Frito Lay if you ever eat at any kind of corporate food place.

 

You're using the internet, so you're in the pocket of one of the big telecom businesses and even if you swap to another one you're still dealing with one of four or five megacorps that are colluding with right-wing government to screw you over.

 

I could go on and on, but there isn't any point. If you don't already understand that you're completely entangled in a society that has relinquished too much power from government to big corporations already then you'll never understand it.

 

In government you actually get a vote if you can manage some understanding of what government really is and why it's actually important instead of thinking it's something to rail against.

 

When you vote to shrink government, all you're really doing is voting to shrink the parts of government that could serve your interests, even if you don't actually understand what your interests are. The parts that are serving big corporate interests don't get touched because big corporate interests are the other side of the right-wing governance coin.

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You have no more significant amount of power over any large corporation than an ant has over you.

 

If you participate in society you're stuck supporting big business, and since you're here on the Jaguars message board it's already clear that you do.

 

You drive? Big oil and big automotive and all the [BAD WORD REMOVED] that come with those.

 

You eat? Big agribusiness at the least and probably super huge corporations like Pepsi or Frito Lay if you ever eat at any kind of corporate food place.

 

You're using the internet, so you're in the pocket of one of the big telecom businesses and even if you swap to another one you're still dealing with one of four or five megacorps that are colluding with right-wing government to screw you over.

 

I could go on and on, but there isn't any point. If you don't already understand that you're completely entangled in a society that has relinquished too much power from government to big corporations already then you'll never understand it.

 

In government you actually get a vote if you can manage some understanding of what government really is and why it's actually important instead of thinking it's something to rail against.

 

When you vote to shrink government, all you're really doing is voting to shrink the parts of government that could serve your interests, even if you don't actually understand what your interests are. The parts that are serving big corporate interests don't get touched because big corporate interests are the other side of the right-wing governance coin.

 

1.) so you're forced to drive, you're not given a choice on the type of vehicle you want to drive, what you want to pay for that vehicle, how "clean" or "green" of a vehicle you want? Wrong, you are given a choice of transportation, how you transport yourself is up to you, no one puts a gun to your head and says drive this dirty car or go to jail!

 

2.) Again what you eat, how you eat is up to you. I grow most of my food, it's a choice.

 

3.) Now the internet is force on you? It's a service provided and you voluntarily pay for it. I gladly pay for the convince! But guess what plenty of people don't because they have a choice (shocking)

 

When you vote for government you vote to trade choice for security, simple as that. At some point you've traded away all your choices for predetermined securities.

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1.) so you're forced to drive, you're not given a choice on the type of vehicle you want to drive, what you want to pay for that vehicle, how "clean" or "green" of a vehicle you want? Wrong, you are given a choice of transportation, how you transport yourself is up to you, no one puts a gun to your head and says drive this dirty car or go to jail!

 

2.) Again what you eat, how you eat is up to you. I grow most of my food, it's a choice.

 

3.) Now the internet is force on you? It's a service provided and you voluntarily pay for it. I gladly pay for the convince! But guess what plenty of people don't because they have a choice (shocking)

 

When you vote for government you vote to trade choice for security, simple as that. At some point you've traded away all your choices for predetermined securities.

 

1. For most jobs, yes. Even if you ride the bus it's still supporting big oil.

 

2. It's hard to grow enough food to survive year round on unless you're working at it full time. If you're a farmer then good for you, but you're still beholden to big corporations for all kinds of things if you are, one of which is the implements needed for modern farming.

 

3. If you want to participate in modern society it sure is. If you're a farmer then maybe it's not important for you right now, but I can assure you, it's pretty much a necessary for function in modern society.

 

No, when you vote for non government you're trading imagined freedom for societal direction. Maybe you like the direction that you get with no government, but you're not getting more choice by eliminating federal authority.

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1. For most jobs, yes. Even if you ride the bus it's still supporting big oil.

 

2. It's hard to grow enough food to survive year round on unless you're working at it full time. If you're a farmer then good for you, but you're still beholden to big corporations for all kinds of things if you are, one of which is the implements needed for modern farming.

 

3. If you want to participate in modern society it sure is. If you're a farmer then maybe it's not important for you right now, but I can assure you, it's pretty much a necessary for function in modern society.

 

No, when you vote for non government you're trading imagined freedom for societal direction. Maybe you like the direction that you get with no government, but you're not getting more choice by eliminating federal authority.

 

1. You can choose to live close enough to work if you want to cut out big oil. You can find ways to make income without supporting big oil if it's important to you, or you can drive an electric car. it's choice, most people chose the convince big oil offers, but that's not the same as force.

 

2. I'm not a full time farmer, and we buy plenty of groceries, but I could chose to buy from farmer markets. I could chose to change what I eat and eat more home grown food. Food is 100% choice!

 

3. It's a service OFFERED to you, it's extremely helpful, heck even important but it's not FORCED on you or anyone else.

 

It's crazy how you associate people offering services as the enemy.

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1. You can choose to live close enough to work if you want to cut out big oil. You can find ways to make income without supporting big oil if it's important to you, or you can drive an electric car. it's choice, most people chose the convince big oil offers, but that's not the same as force.

 

2. I'm not a full time farmer, and we buy plenty of groceries, but I could chose to buy from farmer markets. I could chose to change what I eat and eat more home grown food. Food is 100% choice!

 

3. It's a service OFFERED to you, it's extremely helpful, heck even important but it's not FORCED on you or anyone else.

 

It's crazy how you associate people offering services as the enemy.

 

1. That's quaint, the idea that people can choose where they work. You come across as completely out of touch regarding the level of employment choice for the average worker.

 

2. So you buy from farmer markets and assume it's from some small family farm then and not big agribusiness? I'm not surprised to hear you're just blissfully unaware of reality.

 

3. NO NEED FOR CAPS, they just make it seem like you're shouting your wrong position and I can read. Nothing is forced on anyone, everyone's free to go drown their self in the river, that doesn't mean your position isn't ridiculous. Internet access is a utility and necessarily ubiquitous in modern society. That it's still being allowed to go unregulated by massive super profitable monopoly level corporations is a problem.

 

It's crazy how you think big corporate business is about offering services and not controlling the market.

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1. That's quaint, the idea that people can choose where they work. You come across as completely out of touch regarding the level of employment choice for the average worker.

 

2. So you buy from farmer markets and assume it's from some small family farm then and not big agribusiness? I'm not surprised to hear you're just blissfully unaware of reality.

 

3. NO NEED FOR CAPS, they just make it seem like you're shouting your wrong position and I can read. Nothing is forced on anyone, everyone's free to go drown their self in the river, that doesn't mean your position isn't ridiculous. Internet access is a utility and necessarily ubiquitous in modern society. That it's still being allowed to go unregulated by massive super profitable monopoly level corporations is a problem.

 

It's crazy how you think big corporate business is about offering services and not controlling the market.

 

Yes big corporations are a problem, but you don't have to use their products or services. everything you've mentioned is absolutely 100% choice, avoiding any of it would take extreme sacrifice and changes in lifestyle fine, but it's still a choice. You can't opt out of government control regardless of the price or sacrifices you're willing to make.

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Yes big corporations are a problem, but you don't have to use their products or services. everything you've mentioned is absolutely 100% choice, avoiding any of it would take extreme sacrifice and changes in lifestyle fine, but it's still a choice. You can't opt out of government control regardless of the price or sacrifices you're willing to make.

 

That's a ridiculous position. It doesn't matter where the control comes from there's going to be control. Going to live in the woods like Ted Kaczynski isn't a solution.

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