I'm a female.

 

When I was a child I didn't like girl toys. I liked boy toys. I never had a desire to play with dolls, like most you guys didn't have that desire either, probably. My mother would get me a doll every year for Christmas. In addition to the doll, she would get me things that I really wanted "boy toys". To me, as a child, I didn't understand why my mom always got me a doll. I never asked for one, I never even showed a desire for one. As I started to get older, I asked her to please stop doing that. She obliged. My parents were very supportive of me liking sports and basically being an all around tom-boy. My dad let me work with him on "men-type' projects and I loved it, he was proud of me. I could have probably been born a boy and would have been the exact same personality wise, but I wasn't, I was born a girl.

 

As I got older I started to conform more to what society thought I should be. I wasn't just working off of instinct any longer. I was aware of what I felt I "should" be. I then understood why my mom insisted on buying dolls for me. It made sense.

 

I don't have a desire to transition to a man, far from it. I enjoy my life and am happy as a woman. My point is, there's a spectrum and I obviously fall somewhere other than the left side of WOMAN< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >MAN. I would gather we all fall somewhere on this spectrum. Calling someone who might be born as a male, but think/feel like a woman "severe mental illness" is hogwash. If you were lucky enough to have your mind and body match up in perfect harmony, goody for you. Not everyone has that kind of luck.

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Caitlyn didn't transition to win an award. She did so so she could finally feel whole. The constant breaking her down to lift up others that you feel should win a silly "award" is ridiculous. I'm sure she's breathing freely because she's finally living the life she wants, not because she's some award recipient.

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Caitlyn didn't transition to win an award. She did so so she could finally feel whole. The constant breaking her down to lift up others that you feel should win a silly "award" is ridiculous. I'm sure she's breathing freely because she's finally living the life she wants, not because she's some award recipient.

 

I don't know if I can 100% agree with this.

 

He agreed to be on a reality show that became huge and continued to be on it, and seemingly enjoyed the limelight.  Nothing wrong with that if its your thing.  Like I said earlier, in his last interview as a man he said a few times that he wanted to just live a normal life.  Continuing to live your life in the media is not a normal life and it will force (and by doing it, with your approval) the media to continue to follow you.

 

He could very easily tell ESPN he will not accept the award, and in doing so I think he would actually gain a lot more fans.  Just my two cents.

 

Edit:  As far as the rewards I dont think its breaking her down at all.  It's more pointing out that ESPN is sensationalizing what is happening with Caitlyn Jenner to further its goals.  ESPN could care less about Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner, but more about ratings.

 

When this award goes back to Jimmy V, Stuart Scott, Muhammad Ali, Billie Jean King, Pat Tillman, Nelson Mandela, etc etc....the award has some meaning.  To turn it into, what at least looks like, a ratings ploy seems disingenuous to the others that received it before her.

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Point is, I don't think she's done all this to gain publicity. Sure, celebrities love publicity, but this transitioning has been something that's been going on for most of her life. She hid it for years. If she gains notoriety, which she undoubtedly is, then well.....I don't know. It's a story. Just don't think that was the motivation.

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Caitlyn didn't transition to win an award. She did so so she could finally feel whole. The constant breaking her down to lift up others that you feel should win a silly "award" is ridiculous. I'm sure she's breathing freely because she's finally living the life she wants, not because she's some award recipient.

What are you talking about, if you're talking about what I posted.. Not once did I attack Jenner or blame Jenner for winning the award.. I blame ESPN for that. However if Jenner knows Hill's story and has any integrity then Jenner shouldn't accept it.. If I was in Jenner's shoes I wouldn't.. But then again I would be smart enough to realize I was just being used so I wouldn't show up to the dog and pony show either.

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Caitlyn didn't transition to win an award. She did so so she could finally feel whole. The constant breaking her down to lift up others that you feel should win a silly "award" is ridiculous. I'm sure she's breathing freely because she's finally living the life she wants, not because she's some award recipient.

 

Bruce Jenner is a product of the Kardashian's world.  It's all about self-promotion.  He's going through this heroic change with cameras documenting his ever step, not so that others can gain confidence and follow his lead, but because he's getting paid a ton of money and gaining the kind of celebrity he's craved since his career started to peter out (pun intended) in the mid 80's.  I'm not trying to diminish the internal struggles he says he had to deal with for his entire life, but there are people who are truly more deserving of that award.  He's not getting the award for anything more than ratings.  It's the payoff for giving ABC exclusive rights to his first interview about his big change. 

 

I completely agree with the suggestion above that he should politely decline the award and suggest there are more deserving recipients.  He won't do that because that would steal the limelight for him, and ABC would never withdraw it because it would ding their ratings to give it to a dead girl who played college basketball, or to some veteran/athlete who has lost 2 limbs and still managed to succeed.  The public is bored with stories like that.  They want some transgendered former athlete to trot out on stage in full Caitlyn regalia to accept the award so they can watch the freak show.  Jenner isn't to blame for getting the award.  That's all on the network for thinking he's most worthy because they're so paralyzed by their own politically correct agenda.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Why should she turn down the award? Because you think she doesn't deserve it? Because you don't agree that was she did was courageous? Can't they all be courageous in different ways?

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Point is, I don't think she's done all this to gain publicity. Sure, celebrities love publicity, but this transitioning has been something that's been going on for most of her life. She hid it for years. If she gains notoriety, which she undoubtedly is, then well.....I don't know. It's a story. Just don't think that was the motivation.

 

She may not have done THIS to gain publicity, but she sure isn't shying away from it.

 

Again, she can do whatever she wants and live her life anyway she wants.  Just because people don't think she deserves a sports trophy based on courage and life experiences, doesn't mean they hate her, what she is doing, or what she stands for.

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Why should she turn down the award? Because you think she doesn't deserve it? Because you don't agree that was she did was courageous? Can't they all be courageous in different ways?

 

You can go look in this thread and see where I said what she is doing is courageous. 

 

I've pretty much stated my point well enough in other posts to respond.

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Quote not working:

 

@ FBT:

I'm not saying those others aren't deserving and of course media types love a juicy story, but it's not Caitlyn's fault she won. To me, they're all courageous, in different ways.

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Having my quote not work is frustrating!!!

 

@ UCF - nothing was directed at you. You all can have your opinions and I'm not saying they're wrong. I just disagree on specific aspects of them.....the wrong parts.

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You posted one experts opinion and I replied with a piece which specifically showed the potential flaws and agenda of the person you used to support your argument.

I haven't been in front of a computer to check out the second link you posted, on my phone the links don't work so well. However John Hopkins isn't the only mental health professional that claims transgender is a mental disorder. Again i find the argument that biologically it's not possible as a solid ground to argue this is a case of lost identity something that should be treated not celebrated.

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Quote not working:

 

@ FBT:

I'm not saying those others aren't deserving and of course media types love a juicy story, but it's not Caitlyn's fault she won. To me, they're all courageous, in different ways.

 

Facing certain death but still trying to make the most of it by playing a collegiate sport while also raising money/awareness for a disease is beyond courageous.  Especially for a teenager who is just beginning her life.

 

Losing 2 limbs in service to country, and then becoming a world class athlete despite the handicap is truly courageous.

 

Lopping off your manhood, getting breast augmentation, and doing a reality show about your journey to womanhood may be courageous, but not even remotely on the same level as the two above.  I'm not blaming Jenner for getting the award.  That's all on ABC/Disney/ESPN as they push their politically correct agenda. 

 

I do think all of this publicity is nothing more than his desperate need to remain in the limelight, so he's not turning down any opportunity to get in front of a camera at this point.  It makes for better TV for his reality show that will air later this year.

 

I wonder if they'd give a courage ESPY to an athlete in a situation like this?  Hypothetical: a star Iraqi soccer player who just happens to be devoutly Christian, winds up being beheaded by ISIS because he won't renounce his faith, and as a result becomes the poster child for opposition to Muslim oppression in the Middle East.  Do you think ESPN would give him the courage ESPY?

 

I don't think they would. It's not the politically correct thing to do.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ESPN making an Ashe award? They could win it themselves

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Blakes Life Matters

Once again, Caitlyn Jenner has not yet undergone sex organ reassignment surgery. In fact, only about 25% of transgendered individuals undergo the surgery. Genitalia has very little, if anything, to do with gender identity.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Laure...Y?src=hash


I know they only did this for political reasons and to get ratings.. And I'm sure they'll get their ratings, but in the long run I don't see this working out well for ESPN, they jumped the Shark on this one.

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Once again, Caitlyn Jenner has not yet undergone sex organ reassignment surgery. In fact, only about 25% of transgendered individuals undergo the surgery. Genitalia has very little, if anything, to do with gender identity.

 

No, she hasn't, and it's quite possible that she won't when the dust settles.  Does that make her more courageous and worthy of this award?

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Tim, I gotta say, I'm super impressed you used the corrected pronoun above. Not to demean your intelligence because no doubt your are intelligent, but the fact that you chose to describe her as a her.

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Tim, I gotta say, I'm super impressed you used the corrected pronoun above. Not to demean your intelligence because no doubt your are intelligent, but the fact that you chose to describe her as a her.

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

No, she hasn't, and it's quite possible that she won't when the dust settles.  Does that make her more courageous and worthy of this award?

 

No, getting the surgery is irrelevant, was just pointing out many were making an incorrect assumption.

 

ESPN created and bestows the award, it is up to them to determine who qualifies. I have no doubt the prospect of more fame and money had something to do with Jenner's recent disclosures, but that does not mean doing so was not courageous. Is Lauren Hill more deserving? Probably, but I don't hold ESPN in high enough regard to care one way or another.

 

Suicide rates among transgender individuals are alarmingly high. If Caitlyn Jenner's "coming out" helps some poor, anonymous soul feel better enough about him or herself to reconsider ending their life, then good was done. It matters not one whit to me that Jenner's motivation may not have been 100% purely based on the well being of others.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley