Tim, I gotta say, I'm super impressed you used the corrected pronoun above. Not to demean your intelligence because no doubt your are intelligent, but the fact that you chose to describe her as a her.

 

 

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here. 

 

Since there hasn't been any "snip, snip" or slicing, wouldn't the correct pronoun be he/she?  Just saying...

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm just now catching up with this thread. All I can say is "wow".

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Once again, Caitlyn Jenner has not yet undergone sex organ reassignment surgery. In fact, only about 25% of transgendered individuals undergo the surgery. Genitalia has very little, if anything, to do with gender identity.

 

I know that this is "mincing words", but how is gender identification determined?  The genitalia is the most basic way, and more specifically chromosomes.  "Self identity" is another thing, but how do we actually determine if something/someone is male or female?  Here is a simple way to look at it.  Since he/she "self identifies" as a female, but has male genitalia, which public restroom would he/she be allowed to use?  What about a public locker room at say a public swimming pool or a gym?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Since there hasn't been any "snip, snip" or slicing, wouldn't the correct pronoun be he/she?  Just saying...

 

Or shim. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

No, getting the surgery is irrelevant, was just pointing out many were making an incorrect assumption.

 

ESPN created and bestows the award, it is up to them to determine who qualifies. I have no doubt the prospect of more fame and money had something to do with Jenner's recent disclosures, but that does not mean doing so was not courageous. Is Lauren Hill more deserving? Probably, but I don't hold ESPN in high enough regard to care one way or another.

 

Suicide rates among transgender individuals are alarmingly high. If Caitlyn Jenner's "coming out" helps some poor, anonymous soul feel better enough about him or herself to reconsider ending their life, then good was done. It matters not one whit to me that Jenner's motivation may not have been 100% purely based on the well being of others.

 

Understood.  But, IMO, that award was already Jenner's the day he/she agreed to sit down with Diane Sawyer for the interview. 

 

I agree with you in saying that ESPN shouldn't be held in high regard.  This only solidifies that viewpoint as far as I'm concerned. 

 

I don't think Jenner's declaration is going to save a single life to be quite honest.  If you listen to some of the experts on this subject, including one person who had the gender reassignment after being pressured to do so only to flip back to male after the fact because the change didn't fix his issues, nothing is going to change because Jenner has decided to put on a dress and makeup and attach some fake boobs.  All it's going to do at the end of the day is refill the coffers and give a bit more time in the limelight.  Those in the LGBT community who think this is somehow going to provide some sort of vindication at the end of the day are going to be very disappointed.  All a circus like this does is create more division.  If Jenner's genuine goal was to help others and to make the changes necessary to deal with the issues in his/her life, and he did it quietly outside of the public eye, I'd probably be more sympathetic.  The fact that Jenner has been actively promoting this in order to boost interest in a reality show starring Caitlyn diminishes the benefit drastically.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

IOC responds to the ridiculous petition started a few days back trying to get them to strip Jenner of his gold medal. https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-...28464.html

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

IOC responds to the ridiculous petition started a few days back trying to get them to strip Jenner of his gold medal. https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-...28464.html

 

On this I can agree.  Bruce Jenner earned that gold medal and did so in spectacular fashion.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

On this I can agree.  Bruce Jenner earned that gold medal and did so in spectacular fashion.

Absolutely.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

IOC responds to the ridiculous petition started a few days back trying to get them to strip Jenner of his gold medal. https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-...28464.html

Jenner earned the medal and should not be under any threat to have it taken away.  Anyone suggesting anything of the sort is an idiot.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Agreed

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I know that this is "mincing words", but how is gender identification determined?  The genitalia is the most basic way, and more specifically chromosomes.  "Self identity" is another thing, but how do we actually determine if something/someone is male or female?  Here is a simple way to look at it.  Since he/she "self identifies" as a female, but has male genitalia, which public restroom would he/she be allowed to use?  What about a public locker room at say a public swimming pool or a gym?

 

Good questions, but hardly unsolvable issues. According to Wikipedia, 5 U.S. cities, including San Francisco and New York, require access to public restrooms be based on a person's personal gender identity. Unisex restrooms can be found in Europe and Canada, as well as on some U.S. college campuses. As awareness and tolerance grows, this may well cease to be an issue.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Interesting take on this discussion.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Good questions, but hardly unsolvable issues. According to Wikipedia, 5 U.S. cities, including San Francisco and New York, require access to public restrooms be based on a person's personal gender identity. Unisex restrooms can be found in Europe and Canada, as well as on some U.S. college campuses. As awareness and tolerance grows, this may well cease to be an issue.

 

This is turning into a political discussion, and should probably be moved to the political forum.

 

It's really not surprising to me that San Francisco or New York would adopt such legislation.  I personally have a problem with access to public restrooms be based on a person's "gender identity".  Here is a simple example of how that law can be exploited.  What if some pervert decided that he was going to go into a female restroom, and use as his excuse that he "self identifies" as a female?

 

Unisex restrooms might be an option, but at what cost?  Why should businesses or public places be required to accommodate less than 1% or 2% of the population?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/piadesolenni/will-the-real-caitlyn-jenner-please-stand-up/'>Interesting take on this discussion.</a>

Great article..Check this one out.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/calling-bruce-jenner-a-woman-is-an-insult-to-women/'>http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/calling-bruce-jenner-a-woman-is-an-insult-to-women/</a>


It's pretty clear what the media is trying to do here, just wish more people could see it for what it is..exploitation

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Interesting take on this discussion.

 

The article makes some valid points, but let's not forget we are talking about a magazine cover, not a family photo. One would expect Jenner to appear at her most "attractive", just like anyone posing for a similar cover. If she's guilty of objectifying women, then she's just one of thousands doing the same.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Interesting take on this discussion.

 

Very much so.

 

From points expressed in the article.

 

1.  He/she does not look like a 65 year old woman at all.

 

2.  The picture of he/she has probably been heavily edited.

 

3.  I've always thought that looking at the hands gives away a woman's "true age".  I'm thinking that it also would give away that the "woman" is not in fact a "woman" at all.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Very much so.

 

From points expressed in the article.

 

1.  He/she does not look like a 65 year old woman at all.

 

2.  The picture of he/she has probably been heavily edited.

 

3.  I've always thought that looking at the hands gives away a woman's "true age".  I'm thinking that it also would give away that the "woman" is not in fact a "woman" at all.

Well you can't shave your hands down, at least last time I checked.


All of this really is kinda sad. I have no problem if someone wants to do this or feels like they have to do this to themselves.. I'm not going to judge, but the way the media and other political faction havery handled and manipulated this for their own personal gains is sickening.

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Very much so.

 

From points expressed in the article.

 

1.  He/she does not look like a 65 year old woman at all.

 

2.  The picture of he/she has probably been heavily edited.

 

3.  I've always thought that looking at the hands gives away a woman's "true age".  I'm thinking that it also would give away that the "woman" is not in fact a "woman" at all.

Be honest though...did he look like a 65 year old man when he was Bruce? Nope...not at all.


I've got news for all you guys on here...It might scare the hell out of you to think about when thinking about your mom or your grandma, but there are natural born, 65 year old women that still desire to get dolled up and look sexy....and plenty of them still do. Big whoop de do!! What exactly did they think he was going to do? Decide to live as a female and embrace a Grandma in a moo moo look??

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

And that's why ESPN will regret giving "her" the Ashe Award.. The Espys are still a month away..by the time Jenner has to walk on that stage people are going to be so oversaturated with this story they'll know how much of a complete farce it is that "she" is even receiving that award of the much more deserving candidates..they'll know the only reason why "she" is getting the award is because of political B.S.

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Be honest though...did he look like a 65 year old man when he was Bruce? Nope...not at all.

I've got news for all you guys on here...It might scare the hell out of you to think about when thinking about your mom or your grandma, but there are natural born, 65 year old women that still desire to get dolled up and look sexy....and plenty of them still do. Big whoop de do!! What exactly did they think he was going to do? Decide to live as a female and embrace a Grandma in a moo moo look??

You missed the point entirely.. He said he no longer wanted to hide who he is, yet all he's doing is hiding in that picture.. He still isn't showing his true self. And he didn't look like a 65 yo man, because he was already having cosmetic surgery when he was a dude. Everything about him is completely fake.

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