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flgatorsandjags · 12-26-2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:Good stats, and Beasley wasnt coming off an ACL injury and was a much better edge rusher then Fowler coming out of college

ATL fans were calling Beasley a bust too, Fowler will have a big leap next year, one thing about Fowler is he loves the game and will play hard.

You forgot to mention he was coached by the worst coach in NFL history as well

flgatorsandjags · 12-26-2016, 05:11 PM

Quote:Yeah still not putting Marqise in the above average category yet. He's made some nice plays yes, so does virtually every average WR.

Dontrell Inman makes some nice plays, Rishard Matthews makes some nice plays, Brandon Lafell makes some nice plays, Chris Hogan has made some nice plays, Cameron Meredith has made some nice plays. Ted Ginn makes some nice plays. Terrence Williams has made some nice plays.

I wouldn't call any of those guys above average, but they're beating Marqise in at least 2 of yards, yards per catch, or TDs. If y'all are labeling those guys above as above average or good also then it's fair to call Marqise that too, we just disagree on where the bar is. I was also the guy not ready to anoint Hurns as a top 100 overall player after he made that list too, so maybe my WR threshold is just high.

when Hurns is 100% he is

**NYC4jags** · 12-26-2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:.... so maybe my WR threshold is just high.

Or you just failed miserably at evaluating Lee. Categorize him all you want.

But he's clearly proven you young in three points of "analysis."

Needs to play the slot to be effective - wrong
Has "waffle iron hands" - wrong
Doesn't make contested catches - wrong again

I actually enjoy the majority of your posting when it's strictly about football and I agree with a fair amount of your opinions on players. You just aren't very graceful at being wrong and you reach pretty hard to defend your initial take even when it's clearly off the mark. Anyway - at least you have confidence in your opinions.

Cleatwood · 12-26-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:No he wasn't. He left after his junior year and is 21 years old.

Hahahaha

C-Dub93 · 12-26-2016, 05:54 PM

Yannick was still on a different level as far as rushing the passer at his age. He was always viewed as a DPR coming out. He specialized in it and showed that by whipping LTs in college all throughout the big 10.

Ngakoue has a chance to be a perennial double digit sack guy because hes advanced in that area. No idea why people were so down on him coming out (3rd round...). Happy as hell qe got Jack in the 2nd but Dave saying Ngakoue was his guy in the 2nd too makes me feel so damn good about the fact he fell lol. Thankfully other teams missed.

jessepeck1213 · 12-26-2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:Also Yannick was a 5th year Sr., pure pass rusher not coming off an ACL injury

Must have been pretty smart if he started college at 15 years old.

KYjaggy · 12-26-2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:Or you just failed miserably at evaluating Lee. Categorize him all you want.

But he's clearly proven you young in three points of "analysis."

Needs to play the slot to be effective - wrong

Has "waffle iron hands" - wrong

Doesn't make contested catches - wrong again

I actually enjoy the majority of your posting when it's strictly about football and I agree with a fair amount of your opinions on players. You just aren't very graceful at being wrong and you reach pretty hard to defend your initial take even when it's clearly off the mark. Anyway - at least you have confidence in your opinions.

He has made tangible growth catching the ball, but 12% drop rate in college and 9% NFL drop rate coming into this year is quite poor. I'm not sure if a year of growth outweighs 5 years of bad yet. We shall see going forward. If he keeps it up in time the Lee stans will be right.

Kind of like I have agreed multiple times that it's fair to say too early to say Fowler is a bust yet..to bring it back to this threads topic. It's just not looking good based on the flashes we should have been seeing by now.

J-Mizzal · 12-26-2016, 07:28 PM

Quote:No he wasn't. He left after his junior year and is 21 years old.

Ok I was misinformed from somebody

Jags this is your year

Cleatwood · 12-26-2016, 07:40 PM

Quote:Ok I was misinformed from somebody

Internet is full of tricksters.

JagsGooner · 12-26-2016, 07:45 PM

Quote:Internet is full of tricksters.

Damn all those tricksters!!

You either die as a good poster, or live long enough to become the troll.

Vino · 12-26-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:Yannick was still on a different level as far as rushing the passer at his age. He was always viewed as a DPR coming out. He specialized in it and showed that by whipping LTs in college all throughout the big 10.

Ngakoue has a chance to be a perennial double digit sack guy because hes advanced in that area. No idea why people were so down on him coming out (3rd round...). Happy as hell qe got Jack in the 2nd but Dave saying Ngakoue was his guy in the 2nd too makes me feel so damn good about the fact he fell lol. Thankfully other teams missed.

because he sucks against the run and isn't super athletic.

"A man with no sauce is lost.

But that same man can get lost in the sauce."

C-Dub93 · 12-26-2016, 10:02 PM

Quote:because he sucks against the run and isn't super athletic.

A guy with his talent as a pass rusher shouldnt fall to rd 3 because of run defense at age 21. He tries and isnt terrible in that department imo. No, if you want a DL in that can really stop the run he isnt part of that package but its not like if he happens to be in hes just a black hole.

pirkster · 12-26-2016, 11:56 PM

Gus beat these Colts, so...

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

**Senor Fantastico** · 12-27-2016, 01:10 AM

Quote:A guy with his talent as a pass rusher shouldnt fall to rd 3 because of run defense at age 21. He tries and isnt terrible in that department imo. No, if you want a DL in that can really stop the run he isnt part of that package but its not like if he happens to be in hes just a black hole.

Looked ok on Saturday.

C-Dub93 · 12-27-2016, 01:22 AM

Quote:Looked ok on Saturday.

Hes been ok for the most part all season in the run department. No hes not great at it but hes not a liability either.

Regardless, shouldnt have fell to rd 3. Not complaining though.

KYjaggy · 12-27-2016, 07:30 AM

Quote:because he sucks against the run and isn't super athletic.

Yannick isn't a great athlete no, only slightly above Fowler. He can bend very well, however, and that makes all of the difference in his case. Joe Goodberry wrote about the play below in an article illustrating bend that I unfortunately can't find now.. It included a better slow motion video of the play, but it can still get the point across.

https://vine.co/v/5vPB0n3WeIm

As you can see, 90% of the play is the exact same for Dante and Yannick. Their get off starts at the exact same time, they get virtually the exact same acceleration, the exact same depth on their rush, exact same positioning on the respective OT, etc. Mirror images of each others rush. And then they have to bend to get to Flacco and you can see what happens when a DE can bend and one can't. Dante gets pushed past the pocket harmlessly as we have seen so many times, while Yannick gets the sack fumble.

**Senor Fantastico** · 12-27-2016, 03:49 PM

Quote:Yannick isn't a great athlete no, only slightly above Fowler. He can bend very well, however, and that makes all of the difference in his case. Joe Goodberry wrote about the play below in an article illustrating bend that I unfortunately can't find now.. It included a better slow motion video of the play, but it can still get the point across.

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://vine.co/v/5vPB0n3WeIm'>https://vine.co/v/5vPB0n3WeIm</a>

As you can see, 90% of the play is the exact same for Dante and Yannick. Their get off starts at the exact same time, they get virtually the exact same acceleration, the exact same depth on their rush, exact same positioning on the respective OT, etc. Mirror images of each others rush. And then they have to bend to get to Flacco and you can see what happens when a DE can bend and one can't. Dante gets pushed past the pocket harmlessly as we have seen so many times, while Yannick gets the sack fumble.

I don't see much different in the way of bend there. What I see is the LT drop his head and stop his feet to lunge. Yannick probably used his hands a bit better than Fowler as well.

Eric1 · 12-27-2016, 08:08 PM

Quote:Yannick isn't a great athlete no, only slightly above Fowler. He can bend very well, however, and that makes all of the difference in his case. Joe Goodberry wrote about the play below in an article illustrating bend that I unfortunately can't find now.. It included a better slow motion video of the play, but it can still get the point across.

https://vine.co/v/5vPB0n3WeIm

As you can see, 90% of the play is the exact same for Dante and Yannick. Their get off starts at the exact same time, they get virtually the exact same acceleration, the exact same depth on their rush, exact same positioning on the respective OT, etc. Mirror images of each others rush. And then they have to bend to get to Flacco and you can see what happens when a DE can bend and one can't. Dante gets pushed past the pocket harmlessly as we have seen so many times, while Yannick gets the sack fumble.

What I see in that clip is less about bend and far more about hand usage imo.

I see Fowler taking one big arm chop at the RT, then try and drive his shoulder through him. Which we've all seen multiple times this year from him and it's rarely worked (rarely ever works regardless of who the player is. OTs are just too strong).

I see Ngakoue using good hands technique and slapping away the LT's hands. That's why the LT lunged and had his head down because he tried to punch/grab Ngakoue and got nothing but air.

Just my 2 cents when looking at that particular clip.

**Senor Fantastico** · 12-27-2016, 08:14 PM

Quote:What I see in that clip is less about bend and far more about hand usage imo.

I see Fowler taking one big arm chop at the RT, then try and drive his shoulder through him. Which we've all seen multiple times this year from him and it's rarely worked (rarely ever works regardless of who the player is. OTs are just too strong).

I see Ngakoue using good hands technique and slapping away the LT's hands. That's why the LT lunged and had his head down because he tried to punch/grab Ngakoue and got nothing but air.

Just my 2 cents when looking at that particular clip.

I agree more or less with you but to me it looks like the lunge comes first then Ngakoue disengages with his hands. Minor difference though, could be either order.

Very little of that play had to do with bend by my eye.

Eric1 · 12-27-2016, 08:29 PM

Quote:I agree more or less with you but to me it looks like the lunge comes first then Ngakoue disengages with his hands. Minor difference though, could be either order.

Very little of that play had to do with bend by my eye.

It looked like Ngakoue gave him a slight stutter step and hit the LT with the ol rip and swim move. He swatted the LT's hand down, which caused the lunge (the LT didn't get that initial punch) imo.

Either way, we all know Ngakoue has better bend than Fowler, but I still believe that above clip is far more about proper hands technique and less about his ability to bend.