It's about the drop-off after Ramsey.  There was no drop-off when Thomas and Lewis were hurt. 

That wouldn't be the case if Ramsey went down.  The drop-off would be monumental.

 

Johnson is a good example of the unproven factor that Sterling and Koyack share with him. 

 

But which position group scares you to throw "unproven" out there on the field more?  TE or CB? 

 

I'd start an unproven TE over an unproven corner all day long and twice on Sunday. 

There was no drop off because Thomas and Marcedes are also very bad. A #2 CB is important, but if we are stuck with Colvin and House fighting for it that is better than Koyack and Sterling as our best TEs.

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Personally I think guard is our weakest position group. Cann flashes here and there but isn't great , Omameh flashed too but was also pretty bad at times. Two below average guards at the moment, with Albert who can potentially play there but probably won't.


Its a critical spot to get right for next year too. We can fix so many spots on the team but if the OLine is bad next year we havn't a hope.

Yes, guard was the position I said was a more important need than TE. After guard, it's as important as any to me. 

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There was no drop off because Thomas and Marcedes are also very bad. A #2 CB is important, but if we are stuck with Colvin and House fighting for it that is better than Koyack and Sterling as our best TEs.

 

I disagree and I'll try to make it clear why I do. 

 

You can game plan for your TE on a widely varying scale. Involve them more or less depending on match up and how you want to attack.

  But how the hell do you mitigate your #2 corner?  What impact does a Neal Sterling "starting" at move TE have on the game compared to a Josh Johnson starting at #2 CB?  I think there's a wide gap in impact there. 

 

We don't know how Marrone and Hackett intend to employ their TE group and to what extent they'll be involved in a typical game plan, but we do know that if our #2 corner is under par he'll get picked apart in at least half of his starts. 

 

That's why I'd address TE after I make damn sure I like my #2 CB. 

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I disagree and I'll try to make it clear why I do. 

 

You can game plan for your TE on a widely varying scale. Involve them more or less depending on match up and how you want to attack.

  But how the hell do you mitigate your #2 corner?  What impact does a Neal Sterling "starting" at move TE have on the game compared to a Josh Johnson starting at #2 CB?  I think there's a wide gap in impact there. 

 

We don't know how Marrone and Hackett intend to employ their TE group and to what extent they'll be involved in a typical game plan, but we do know that if our #2 corner is under par he'll get picked apart in at least half of his starts. 

 

That's why I'd address TE after I make damn sure I like my #2 CB. 

You're comparing our TE1 or 2 to our CB4 though...not to Colvin or House.

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You're comparing our TE1 or 2 to our CB4 though...not to Colvin or House.

No. I'm absolutely not doing that. 

 

I'm saying I'd feel better starting any of Lewis, Koyack, or Sterling at TE1 than I'd feel about ignoring CB2 and just letting it end up being Colvin, House or Johnson.  Because the CB position has such a greater impact on the outcome of a football game. 

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No. I'm absolutely not doing that. 

 

I'm saying I'd feel better starting any of Lewis, Koyack, or Sterling at TE1 than I'd feel about ignoring CB2 and just letting it end up being Colvin, House or Johnson because the CB position has such a greater impact on the outcome of a football game. 

The post I quoted only mentioned Johnson at CB2. If you truly feel that about any CB after Ramsey then we are at an impasse again, because I think that's silly. 

 

CB2 is a position that needs to be upgraded that almost guaranteed will be, either with Prince or an upgrade. TE1 is a position that needs to upgraded just as badly, and I think moreso, but the jury is out whether we will try or not. That's the summation to me. 

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The post I quoted only mentioned Johnson at CB2. If you truly feel that about any CB after Ramsey then we are at an impasse again, because I think that's silly. 

 

CB2 is a position that needs to be upgraded that almost guaranteed will be, either with Prince or an upgrade. TE1 is a position that needs to upgraded just as badly, and I think moreso, but the jury is out whether we will try or not. That's the summation to me. 

  They both need to be upgraded and there's a good chance they both will be upgraded.  

 

I very simply would address the CB2 before I addressed the TE1 or TE2 given our current placeholders on the roster.  It's just a more impactful position IMO. 

 

I'd like to see Tre White or G Conley in the second round then a TE like Sprinkle in the fifth.  Not sure what's so tragically out of order there.  

(of course free agency could happily change that to be more flexible in selecting an earlier round TE) 

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That's why I'd address TE after I make damn sure I like my #2 CB. 

 

 


Simply put, it doesn't matter which position is of greater need. To get a CB worthy of a roster spot in this draft you had better do so in rounds 1 through 3, or maybe even round 4 if you've done your homework. To get a TE worthy of a spot you're looking at round 4 on through to undrafted guys. So sure you address CB first based on how the draft works even if you were to rate TE as the bigger need, which I do provided we re-sign Prince or a comparable free agent corner to be the #2 guy.

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'02

Has Jags02 even looked at Saubert yet? He's hands down my favorite day 3 day.

 

 

No, I hadn't even heard of him. I know I still need to cover
Njoku,
Everett and
Engram, but I'll look at Saubert next.

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'02

Our TE depth chart right now is Marcedes, Koyack, and Sterling...after maybe guard that's gotta be the worst looking position on the roster. 

 

 

I like Koyack and believe he can be a decent starter. Given that TE is not given a high priority in our offense, I don't see sacrificing other areas of need like OT, OG, RB, SS, CB, DE or backup QB in order to spend a high pick on one. 

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I like Koyack and believe he can be a decent starter. Given that TE is not given a high priority in our offense, I don't see sacrificing other areas of need like OT, OG, RB, SS, CB, DE or backup QB in order to spend a high pick on one. 

 

 

I agree, which is why I'm thinking round 4 or 5 for a TE with the potential to at least push Koyack and eventually replace Marcedes. I'm thinking round 5 because even if your target TE... let's say Sprinkle... is gone by then, you should still be able to get Michael Roberts in round 5. ...and I'm fine with Roberts being the pick.

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'02

I agree, which is why I'm thinking round 4 or 5 for a TE with the potential to at least push Koyack and eventually replace Marcedes. I'm thinking round 5 because even if your target TE... let's say Sprinkle... is gone by then, you should still be able to get Michael Roberts in round 5. ...and I'm fine with Roberts being the pick.

 

 

I don't have either of those guys being drafted. So in my mind, they would work as UDFA's. I have......

 

 

O.J. Howard- Baltimore round 1

David Njokue- Pittsburgh round 1

Evan Engram- New York Giants round 3

Jordan Leggett- Atlanta round 3

Jake Butt- Dallas round 4

Gerald Everett- Carolina round 5

Bucky Hodges- Minnesota round 5

Adam Shaheen- New York Jets round 6

Eric Saurbert- Arizona round 6

Cole Hikutini- Denver round 7

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I don't have either of those guys being drafted. So in my mind, they would work as UDFA's. I have......

 

 

O.J. Howard- Baltimore round 1

David Njokue- Pittsburgh round 1

Evan Engram- New York Giants round 3

Jordan Leggett- Atlanta round 3

Jake Butt- Dallas round 4

Gerald Everett- Carolina round 5

Bucky Hodges- Minnesota round 5

Adam Shaheen- New York Jets round 6

Eric Saurbert- Arizona round 6

Cole Hikutini- Denver round 7

 

 

TEs should also be able to block wherein I'm convinced Sprinkle, Jappu and Roberts will all be drafted.


 

I don't know when exactly I'll get to Saurbert so why don't you start by telling us why you like him so much.

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'02

I don't have either of those guys being drafted. So in my mind, they would work as UDFA's. I have......



O.J. Howard- Baltimore round 1

David Njokue- Pittsburgh round 1

Evan Engram- New York Giants round 3

Jordan Leggett- Atlanta round 3

Jake Butt- Dallas round 4

Gerald Everett- Carolina round 5

Bucky Hodges- Minnesota round 5

Adam Shaheen- New York Jets round 6

Eric Saurbert- Arizona round 6

Cole Hikutini- Denver round 7

Howard makes zero sense for the ravens.

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I don't have either of those guys being drafted. So in my mind, they would work as UDFA's. I have......

 

 

O.J. Howard- Baltimore round 1

David Njokue- Pittsburgh round 1

Evan Engram- New York Giants round 3

Jordan Leggett- Atlanta round 3

Jake Butt- Dallas round 4

Gerald Everett- Carolina round 5

Bucky Hodges- Minnesota round 5

Adam Shaheen- New York Jets round 6

Eric Saurbert- Arizona round 6

Cole Hikutini- Denver round 7

I think pretty much all of these guys are going earlier than this...some way earlier.

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This mock looks a little more accurate...


 

https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2017/

 

with the following results for TE...

• OJ Howard - Dolphins, round 1 (22)
  
  
• David Njoku - Packers, round 1 (29)
  
  
• Bucky Hodges - Redskins, round 2 (49)
  
  
• Jake Butt - Raiders, round 2 (56)
  
  
• Jordan Leggett - Jaguars, round 3 (68)
  
  
• Evan Engram - Colts, round 3 (78)
  
  
• Gerald Everette - Broncos, round 3 (101)
  
  
• Michael Roberts - Saints, round 4 (118)
  
  
• Adam Shaheen - Chiefs, round 4 (132)
  
  
• Jeremy Sprinkle - Browns, round 5 (145)
  
  
• Cole Hikutini - Jets, round 5 (150)
  
  
• Darrell Daniels - Colts, round 5 (159)
  
  
• Eric Saubert - Browns round 5 (175)
  
  
• Blake Jar
  win - Jets, round 6 (191)
  
  
• Billy Brown - Bengals, round 6 (193)
  
  
• Jonnu Smith - 49ers, round 6 (202)
  
  

I like the Jordan Leggett pick in round three for one of the more electrifying pass catching TEs, although the blocking TEs I was more focused on could all be had by picking in round 4. I still think they can wait until round 5 to get a guy Sprinkle or Roberts, although in this draft both players are gone by the Jaguars 5th round pick. In this mock if I'm picking in round 5 I'm probably looking at Jonnu Smith, Eric Saubert or Cole Hikutini.

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'02

This mock looks a little more accurate...


 

https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2017/

 

with the following results for TE...

• OJ Howard - Dolphins, round 1 (22)
  
  
• David Njoku - Packers, round 1 (29)
  
  
• Bucky Hodges - Redskins, round 2 (49)
  
  
• Jake Butt - Raiders, round 2 (56)
  
  
• Jordan Leggett - Jaguars, round 3 (68)
  
  
• Evan Engram - Colts, round 3 (78)
  
  
• Gerald Everette - Broncos, round 3 (101)
  
  
• Michael Roberts - Saints, round 4 (118)
  
  
• Adam Shaheen - Chiefs, round 4 (132)
  
  
• Jeremy Sprinkle - Browns, round 5 (145)
  
  
• Cole Hikutini - Jets, round 5 (150)
  
  
• Darrell Daniels - Colts, round 5 (159)
  
  
• Eric Saubert - Browns round 5 (175)
  
  
• Blake Jar
  win - Jets, round 6 (191)
  
  
• Billy Brown - Bengals, round 6 (193)
  
  
• Jonnu Smith - 49ers, round 6 (202)
  
  

I like the Jordan Leggett pick in round three for one of the more electrifying pass catching TEs, although the blocking TEs I was more focused on could all be had by picking in round 4. I still think they can wait until round 5 to get a guy Sprinkle or Roberts, although in this draft both players are gone by the Jaguars 5th round pick. In this mock if I'm picking in round 5 I'm probably looking at Jonnu Smith, Eric Saubert or Cole Hikutini.

 

 

After trading for Julius Thomas, I seriously doubt Miami would consider TE a big enough need to take a TE in round 1. I just don't see it at all. They have too many major needs on defense. The same goes for Green Bay. Their defense was atrocious, especially the secondary. as long as they have one of the best QB's in the NFL, they will always have one of the better passing offenses in the NFL, no matter who is at TE. They need to focus on defense and filling in spots on the O-Line, where they might lose key players to free agency. The same goes for Washington. Their defense is awful and they already have a really good TE in Jordan Reed. I don't think a TE makes any sense for them. As someone who lives outside Cincinnati, I'd be floored if the Bengals took a TE. That's one of their best positions. They have too many other needs to focus on taking someone who is just gonna sit behind Eifert and Kroft. 

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Howard makes zero sense for the ravens.

 

 

Baltimore does not have a lot of cap space and Dennis Pitta is due a ton of money. I've read several articles that speculated he would be cut. I know TE is huge in Baltimore's offense and Crockett Gilmore has been a bust so far. I had them picking O.J. Howard based on the assumption that Pitta might get cut. If he isn't, obviously, this changes things for the Ravens. I'll change my own mock at least 5-6 more times before the actual draft. If Pitta is still a Raven in the next couple of weeks, I'll definitely have Baltimore go in another direction in round 1. Like I said, this pick was based upon the assumption that Pitta would be cut. 

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Howard makes zero sense for the ravens.

Ozzie Newsome loves taking Bama players and he especially loves tough tight ends who can block like Howard.


Edit : Completely forget they had Maxx Williams already

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Baltimore does not have a lot of cap space and Dennis Pitta is due a ton of money. I've read several articles that speculated he would be cut. I know TE is huge in Baltimore's offense and Crockett Gilmore has been a bust so far. I had them picking O.J. Howard based on the assumption that Pitta might get cut. If he isn't, obviously, this changes things for the Ravens. I'll change my own mock at least 5-6 more times before the actual draft. If Pitta is still a Raven in the next couple of weeks, I'll definitely have Baltimore go in another direction in round 1. Like I said, this pick was based upon the assumption that Pitta would be cut. 

I don't think they can keep all of their TEs  ( they also have Maxx Williams, Darren Waller and Nick Boyle on the roster)  but I don't agree on Gilmore being a bust and I don't think they do either. 

 

I think they selected him one round too early in the draft, but I actually see a lot of potential in his play.  I'm curious why you see him as a bust? 

He hasn't had a ton of production, but he hasn't had a ton of snaps either. 

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