Fournette's speed - 4.51

Cook's speed - 4.50

Right, I mean that would say that Cook is "faster" too but I'm really just going off play speed. Fournette has outrageous speed for a man his size, so perhaps lets say they are equally fast. That still just leaves Blocking, power and ball security as the only areas where you could say that Fournette is better than Cook.

---

It's funny that you say that about Cook. When I watch a Cook highlight film I see all the explosive plays. When I watch full games of him, i see him tackled for loss over and over until he breaks a big one. 

 

Every RB will get tackled for losses, especially when the OL allows penetration. First off, let's skip the over exaggeration. Cook doesn't get tackled for loss "over and over". 

 

No RB will pop a 20 yard run every time they touch the football. What I personally notice from watching Cook vs. Fournette cutups is that Fournette left a lot of yards on the field. 

 

When the OL blasts a hole, both are equally dynamic (perhaps LF moreso because once he gets a full steam going, he's tough to stop at the 2nd level).

 

When the OL doesn't create a massive hole in which the RB can accelerate however, LF more often than not puts his shoulder down and picks up 2-3 yards and be done with it. Now there's definitely a fine line here, as sometimes you do want your RB to do that. But there were several plays where I saw (or felt) that the lanes would open up if LF showed more patience instead of simply bulldozing his way in.

 

On the other hand, I thought Cook did a much better job of taking those 2-3 yard gains if that's all there is. But at the same time, I thought he also did as good a job on runs that should have been -3 yards that he turned into 3 or 4 yard gains.

 

Also going back to "big plays". Majority of LF's big plays are when the OL blasts holes through for him and he basically bursts through it, maybe make one-cut, then explode into the secondary where he turns on his jets and does the rest.

 

While you see some of these with Cook, there were just as many runs where the run looks like a 3-4 yard gain for most normal backs, but his vision, patience, and burst turns it into a huge play.

---

Every RB will get tackled for losses, especially when the OL allows penetration. First off, let's skip the over exaggeration. Cook doesn't get tackled for loss "over and over". 

To be fair, Cook's 19.9% of carries tackled behind the LOS is the worst in the class.

---

 

When the OL doesn't create a massive hole in which the RB can accelerate however, LF more often than not puts his shoulder down and picks up 2-3 yards and be done with it. Now there's definitely a fine line here, as sometimes you do want your RB to do that. But there were several plays where I saw (or felt) that the lanes would open up if LF showed more patience instead of simply bulldozing his way in.

 

On the other hand, I thought Cook did a much better job of taking those 2-3 yard gains if that's all there is. But at the same time, I thought he also did as good a job on runs that should have been -3 yards that he turned into 3 or 4 yard gains.

 

Also going back to "big plays". Majority of LF's big plays are when the OL blasts holes through for him and he basically bursts through it, maybe make one-cut, then explode into the secondary where he turns on his jets and does the rest.

 

While you see some of these with Cook, there were just as many runs where the run looks like a 3-4 yard gain for most normal backs, but his vision, patience, and burst turns it into a huge play.

 

This is essentially what has kept me from liking Fournette at four. 

 

I believe it's Fournette's lack of lateral agility and quickness that keeps him from being able to improvise at the line of scrimmage when there is no hole. You put it down to patience/vision/burst, which also makes sense. 

 

Folks like to call him an "AP-level-prospect"  but you may never see the following type of improvisation at the LOS from Fournette because he doesn't possess that type of lateral agility or quickness: 

 



 

The few times you see Fournette improvise his way out of contact behind the LOS, he simply overpowers one guy.  That will get harder to do on the next level. More often he gets tripped up quickly when the gaps are filled.  

The vast majority of his big runs at LSU came straight through gaping holes up front. 

AP took the run in the above clip to the house, BTW. When Fournette does manage to bounce outside after contact, he's usually tripped up after a modest gain.  It's not that he has zero ability to move laterally and improvise, but that part of his game pales in comparison to the better NFL backs IMO. 

 

I still believe he can do great things for an NFL team possessing an O-Line that consistently gives him a lane, but I doubt his impact on a team with an average or worse line. I'm not trying to blast the guy. I think he's a first rounder.  I just don't see a complete enough skill set to take him at 4. 

 

 

(clip:  www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000540258/Adrian-Peterson-highlights)  ^

---

This is essentially what has kept me from liking Fournette at four. 

 

I believe it's Fournette's lack of lateral agility and quickness that keeps him from being able to improvise at the line of scrimmage when there is no hole. You put it down to patience/vision/burst, which also makes sense. 

 

Folks like to call him an "AP-level-prospect"  but you may never see the following type of improvisation at the LOS from Fournette because he doesn't possess that type of lateral agility or quickness: 

 



 

The few times you see Fournette improvise his way out of contact behind the LOS, he simply overpowers one guy.  That will get harder to do on the next level. More often he gets tripped up quickly when the gaps are filled.  

The vast majority of his big runs at LSU came straight through gaping holes up front. 

AP took the run in the above clip to the house, BTW. When Fournette does manage to bounce outside after contact, he's usually tripped up after a modest gain.  It's not that he has zero ability to move laterally and improvise, but that part of his game pales in comparison to the better NFL backs IMO. 

 

I still believe he can do great things for an NFL team possessing an O-Line that consistently gives him a lane, but I doubt his impact on a team with an average or worse line. I'm not trying to blast the guy. I think he's a first rounder.  I just don't see a complete enough skill set to take him at 4. 

 

 

(clip:  www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000540258/Adrian-Peterson-highlights)  ^

 

Yup, this is my biggest concern for him. He simply has not shown a large volume of horizontal jump-cuts near or at the LOS to make me believe it is something he can do, and especially at the NFL level where players are faster, bigger, stronger. If I'm taking a RB at #4, he better not be someone reliant on good blocking to excel. 

 

He needs to be a self creator when blocking isn't ideal too.

---

Yup, this is my biggest concern for him. He simply has not shown a large volume of horizontal jump-cuts near or at the LOS to make me believe it is something he can do, and especially at the NFL level where players are faster, bigger, stronger. If I'm taking a RB at #4, he better not be someone reliant on good blocking to excel. 

 

He needs to be a self creator when blocking isn't ideal too.

 

 

This is where I start to like McCaffrey over Fournette and Cook. That is, McCaffery is great at creating holes where there are none. He has a way of right when he's stopped up he'll pull some super-athletic move, escape, and then he'll turn on his second-gear after burners and he's gone. McCaffery is one of the best I've ever seen at this.

---

'02

This is where I start to like McCaffrey over Fournette and Cook. That is, McCaffery is great at creating holes where there are none. He has a way of right when he's stopped up he'll pull some super-athletic move, escape, and then he'll turn on his second-gear after burners and he's gone. McCaffery is one of the best I've ever seen at this.

 

his change of direction and ability to accelerate is pretty uncanny. its hard for me to rate him as high as his talent is only because im worried about durability at the next level. 

 

if he winds up staying relatively healthy, hes gonna be a nasty weapon for some team. 

---

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

It's tough to really make a McCaffery vs Fournette comparison because they are so different. McCaffery is more of a Fred Taylor type of back who just eludes tackles. Fournette is like a massive Jones-Drew. What stands out to me about McCaffery on film is just how nimble and athletic he can be along with his sheer will to make something happen on every play. What stands out to me about Fournette is his balance and strength running the ball. Getting a hand on Fournette is useless... you better square up and get ready to tackle him or you're either falling off him or run over.


 

While I'm at it, what stands out about Cook is his abilty to blaze through holes before they have a chance to close.

---

'02

McCaffery is more of a Fred Taylor type of back who just eludes tackles.


 

 

a.  He's not like Fred. He's very good - and I'd like to see him in Jacksonville despite it being unlikely - but he's not like Fred.

     Christian is good at making the first guy miss and Fred was too - but  Christian looks very different than Fred doing it. 

 

b. Fred did not "just elude tackles."  His game was much more well rounded than that. 

---

This is essentially what has kept me from liking Fournette at four.


I believe it's Fournette's lack of lateral agility and quickness that keeps him from being able to improvise at the line of scrimmage when there is no hole. You put it down to patience/vision/burst, which also makes sense.


Folks like to call him an "AP-level-prospect" but you may never see the following type of improvisation at the LOS from Fournette because he doesn't possess that type of lateral agility or quickness:




The few times you see Fournette improvise his way out of contact behind the LOS, he simply overpowers one guy. That will get harder to do on the next level. More often he gets tripped up quickly when the gaps are filled.

The vast majority of his big runs at LSU came straight through gaping holes up front.

AP took the run in the above clip to the house, BTW. When Fournette does manage to bounce outside after contact, he's usually tripped up after a modest gain. It's not that he has zero ability to move laterally and improvise, but that part of his game pales in comparison to the better NFL backs IMO.


I still believe he can do great things for an NFL team possessing an O-Line that consistently gives him a lane, but I doubt his impact on a team with an average or worse line. I'm not trying to blast the guy. I think he's a first rounder. I just don't see a complete enough skill set to take him at 4.



(clip: www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000540258/Adrian-Peterson-highlights) ^

Great post

No doubt Fournette will make a lot of long runs once he gets into the secondary. But imo he will get stuffed at the line a lot.

---

a.  He's not like Fred. He's very good - and I'd like to see him in Jacksonville despite it being unlikely - but he's not like Fred.

     Christian is good at making the first guy miss and Fred was too - but  Christian looks very different than Fred doing it. 

 

b. Fred did not "just elude tackles."  His game was much more well rounded than that. 

 

 

Well, nobody is going to be Fred... for that matter I don't know anyone who can cut like FT aside from maybe Barry Sanders.


 

But there are some similarities. While it's more of an acrobatic move verses a hard groin-ripping cut, McCaffery will elude tackles just before getting hit leaving defenders eating dust, and then he'll break away for the huge score. Fred did that too.

---

'02

Well, nobody is going to be Fred... for that matter I don't know anyone who can cut like FT aside from maybe Barry Sanders.


But there are some similarities. While it's more of an acrobatic move verses a hard groin-ripping cut, McCaffery will elude tackles just before getting hit leaving defenders eating dust, and then he'll break away for the huge score. Fred did that too.

He's more McCoy just alot weaker.

---

Every RB will get tackled for losses, especially when the OL allows penetration. First off, let's skip the over exaggeration. Cook doesn't get tackled for loss "over and over". 

 

No RB will pop a 20 yard run every time they touch the football. What I personally notice from watching Cook vs. Fournette cutups is that Fournette left a lot of yards on the field. 

 

When the OL blasts a hole, both are equally dynamic (perhaps LF moreso because once he gets a full steam going, he's tough to stop at the 2nd level).

 

When the OL doesn't create a massive hole in which the RB can accelerate however, LF more often than not puts his shoulder down and picks up 2-3 yards and be done with it. Now there's definitely a fine line here, as sometimes you do want your RB to do that. But there were several plays where I saw (or felt) that the lanes would open up if LF showed more patience instead of simply bulldozing his way in.

 

On the other hand, I thought Cook did a much better job of taking those 2-3 yard gains if that's all there is. But at the same time, I thought he also did as good a job on runs that should have been -3 yards that he turned into 3 or 4 yard gains.

 

Also going back to "big plays". Majority of LF's big plays are when the OL blasts holes through for him and he basically bursts through it, maybe make one-cut, then explode into the secondary where he turns on his jets and does the rest.

 

While you see some of these with Cook, there were just as many runs where the run looks like a 3-4 yard gain for most normal backs, but his vision, patience, and burst turns it into a huge play.

It's give or take with both of them. Cook certainly has the shake to improvise more if nothing is there but I'm actually going to question whether he even can grind down for 3-4 yards when he is hit in the backfield. Like Jaggy said, 20% of his carries are for a loss, I wasn't exaggerating at all when I say that I see Cook tackled for a loss over and over. He lacks the power to push the pile at all. Once someone gets their mitts on him (admittabdly this is pretty darn tough), he's down. I think that if we get stuffed for a loss 20% of the time on first down, you are in a position that's 2nd and 10 or 12, that puts even more strain on your quarterback. We need to stay out of 2nd and 3rd and longs. Sometimes Fournette picks the wrong hole to hit, he isn't as patient a runner as I would like, but that can be taught. When he does pick the wrong hole or smashes up in there, he's going to push that pile for 3-4 yards even on a crap carry. There's a huge difference between 2nd and 6 and 2nd and 12. There are so many options in playcalling from there, especially with the play action. If we had an elite quarterback, I could see getting on board with Cook because you could use him in soooo many ways and you just fling it all over the field and create matchup nightmares all day like the Saints with Bush/Sproles. I think our qb is pretty bad though, and outside of Cook providing him a nice dumpoff, I don't think you can build an offensive identity around that kind of player. With a dominant defense, you need a running game that rarely goes 3 and out, that controls the clock, these are the kind of teams that Coughlin builds. He doesn't builld Colts or Saints teams that sling the ball all over the field, score in 2 minutes and wonder why the defense is gassed. He builds teams that grind out first downs, that march 16 plays over 8-10 minutes that wears the other teams defense out. He's old school and smash mouth, that's why I see Fournette anyways. Still a good chance they go defense depending on what the board looks like but I don't think Cook is a Coughlin man. Fournette seems to have good character for miles. I love his story. 

---

Calling Deshawn Watson a future bust since 3/19/17. If I eat crow, I will keep this in here and proclaim JackCity a genius. 

Well, nobody is going to be Fred... for that matter I don't know anyone who can cut like FT aside from maybe Barry Sanders.


 

But there are some similarities. While it's more of an acrobatic move verses a hard groin-ripping cut, McCaffery will elude tackles just before getting hit leaving defenders eating dust, and then he'll break away for the huge score. Fred did that too.

I've seen little guys that can cut like Freddy but I have never seen anyone his size, not even AD, throw the ankle breakers on like he did. I'm thinking back to that Dolphins playoff game in 99 on his long td run, never seen anything like that since. He made that entire defense miss it seemed. 

---

Calling Deshawn Watson a future bust since 3/19/17. If I eat crow, I will keep this in here and proclaim JackCity a genius. 

It's give or take with both of them. Cook certainly has the shake to improvise more if nothing is there but I'm actually going to question whether he even can grind down for 3-4 yards when he is hit in the backfield. Like Jaggy said, 20% of his carries are for a loss, I wasn't exaggerating at all when I say that I see Cook tackled for a loss over and over. He lacks the power to push the pile at all. Once someone gets their mitts on him (admittabdly this is pretty darn tough), he's down. I think that if we get stuffed for a loss 20% of the time on first down, you are in a position that's 2nd and 10 or 12, that puts even more strain on your quarterback. We need to stay out of 2nd and 3rd and longs. Sometimes Fournette picks the wrong hole to hit, he isn't as patient a runner as I would like, but that can be taught. When he does pick the wrong hole or smashes up in there, he's going to push that pile for 3-4 yards even on a crap carry. There's a huge difference between 2nd and 6 and 2nd and 12. There are so many options in playcalling from there, especially with the play action. If we had an elite quarterback, I could see getting on board with Cook because you could use him in soooo many ways and you just fling it all over the field and create matchup nightmares all day like the Saints with Bush/Sproles. I think our qb is pretty bad though, and outside of Cook providing him a nice dumpoff, I don't think you can build an offensive identity around that kind of player. With a dominant defense, you need a running game that rarely goes 3 and out, that controls the clock, these are the kind of teams that Coughlin builds. He doesn't builld Colts or Saints teams that sling the ball all over the field, score in 2 minutes and wonder why the defense is gassed. He builds teams that grind out first downs, that march 16 plays over 8-10 minutes that wears the other teams defense out. He's old school and smash mouth, that's why I see Fournette anyways. Still a good chance they go defense depending on what the board looks like but I don't think Cook is a Coughlin man. Fournette seems to have good character for miles. I love his story. 

 

That's certainly a philosophical change that a team will have to decide on.

 

Barry Sanders got tackled behind the LOS a lot too. There's a reason Fred didn't get short-yardage runs early in his career. Now, not saying Cook is either of those guys. But IMO, if Fournette is simply a grind-it out RB who can't create in the backfield (as some, myself included, wonder), then you don't take him at 4.

 

I don't care how fast he runs the 40 at his weight.

 

There's a few other big-backs in the draft who can do that for you without needing us to pay a premium of the #4 pick.

---

I've seen little guys that can cut like Freddy but I have never seen anyone his size, not even AD, throw the ankle breakers on like he did. I'm thinking back to that Dolphins playoff game in 99 on his long td run, never seen anything like that since. He made that entire defense miss it seemed. 

 

Fred is one of a kind, and I feel like I'll forever be spoiled. AD is more explosive than him, but he doesn't have Fred's wiggle and jump cut ability. Fred's ability to make guys miss is usually reserved to guys 20-30 lbs lighter than him. I think the size is the thing most forget about Fred.

 

I think from height/weight perspective, he's about the same as AD. But watch them with the pads on and Fred's shoulders and upper body looks wider than AD's.

---

It's give or take with both of them. Cook certainly has the shake to improvise more if nothing is there but I'm actually going to question whether he even can grind down for 3-4 yards when he is hit in the backfield. Like Jaggy said, 20% of his carries are for a loss, I wasn't exaggerating at all when I say that I see Cook tackled for a loss over and over. He lacks the power to push the pile at all. Once someone gets their mitts on him (admittabdly this is pretty darn tough), he's down. I think that if we get stuffed for a loss 20% of the time on first down, you are in a position that's 2nd and 10 or 12, that puts even more strain on your quarterback. We need to stay out of 2nd and 3rd and longs. Sometimes Fournette picks the wrong hole to hit, he isn't as patient a runner as I would like, but that can be taught. When he does pick the wrong hole or smashes up in there, he's going to push that pile for 3-4 yards even on a crap carry. There's a huge difference between 2nd and 6 and 2nd and 12. There are so many options in playcalling from there, especially with the play action. If we had an elite quarterback, I could see getting on board with Cook because you could use him in soooo many ways and you just fling it all over the field and create matchup nightmares all day like the Saints with Bush/Sproles. I think our qb is pretty bad though, and outside of Cook providing him a nice dumpoff, I don't think you can build an offensive identity around that kind of player. With a dominant defense, you need a running game that rarely goes 3 and out, that controls the clock, these are the kind of teams that Coughlin builds. He doesn't builld Colts or Saints teams that sling the ball all over the field, score in 2 minutes and wonder why the defense is gassed. He builds teams that grind out first downs, that march 16 plays over 8-10 minutes that wears the other teams defense out. He's old school and smash mouth, that's why I see Fournette anyways. Still a good chance they go defense depending on what the board looks like but I don't think Cook is a Coughlin man. Fournette seems to have good character for miles. I love his story.

While I agree with a lot of this , Coughlin still likes to throw the ball a ton and have a balanced offense.

---

D'Onta Foreman ran a consensus 4.45/40 at 234 lbs. during his Pro day today. From the reports I read, he was also very impressive in all of the drills he was put through. He had a 10' broad jump and a 33" vertical. Scouts reported he had obviously been working on his pass protection, as he looked much better in drills and in a critical aspect of his game, he caught everything that was thrown to him in the passing drills. Watch him start rising up the boards. 

---

While I agree with a lot of this , Coughlin still likes to throw the ball a ton and have a balanced offense.

For sure, Heck Jimmy had 116 receptions in a year once. He keeps the defense honest and guessing. If you get too predictable the diminishing returns seem to kick in and it gets tougher to get the yards.By modern comparisons, a balanced offense would be considered grind it out. 

---

Calling Deshawn Watson a future bust since 3/19/17. If I eat crow, I will keep this in here and proclaim JackCity a genius. 

D'Onta Foreman ran a consensus 4.45/40 at 234 lbs. during his Pro day today. From the reports I read, he was also very impressive in all of the drills he was put through. He had a 10' broad jump and a 33" vertical. Scouts reported he had obviously been working on his pass protection, as he looked much better in drills and in a critical aspect of his game, he caught everything that was thrown to him in the passing drills. Watch him start rising up the boards. 

I like him a lot. Didn't he play closer to 250? I watched a cut up of him and seems like he pass blocks well. I don't think he has the IT factor that Fournette does but he's good. 

---

Calling Deshawn Watson a future bust since 3/19/17. If I eat crow, I will keep this in here and proclaim JackCity a genius.