It will pass only if the good old boys on the council get their cut maybe?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

The problem, if there is one, with Jacksonville, is that there's no "there" there.  People drive through Jacksonville on any road in any direction, and they say, "What exactly is this place? Where is everything?"  

Not everyone wants to live in a suburb.  A lot of people want to live in a city.  There's a reason apartments in big cities are so expensive: supply and demand.  People are willing to pay huge prices for the ability to live in a city, where you can go downstairs and right there within a few feet there are restaurants and bars and nightlife and museums and concert halls.

Exactly. It shouldn't be a surprise when we hamper our own city development projects and then wonder why nobody wants to live in a certain area or businesses don't migrate into the city even further. 

As for my friend who quoted me, if he was personally performing those duties as such, then he very well knows which entities, and who serves them, continuously pull the plug on said developments. To the point of the team drawing from the pool of church goers, establishing a vibrant downtown bustling with businesses, social establishments, and more would absolutely yield far greater returns than what is currently happening. Also, that demographic is most likely to go to a Jags game regardless - even when they live in the suburbs. 

People with money live/move to the suburbs around Jacksonville because our downtown is underdeveloped as it is. Sad to see how we are wasting prime property and real estate, that other places would kill to have, over some nonsensical shenanigans. Our city (and team) would benefit immensely from such progress, both in social and economical terms, currently and for our future.

Hey man I'm with you, I hate seeing prime Property wasted as well. And I can understand the allure of living in a city, I've spent a lot of time working in and experiencing a lot of downtowns across this country. I'm not interested in living in one now because of where I am in life, but I get it. My posts were merely reflecting what I believe is true about downtown Jacksonville. As someone else has said in this thread, it will most likely take one or more generations to come and go before Jacksonville FL has a downtown that's attractive to live in. One of the first things I would do, tho, if I were in charge, is send all that industry along Talleyrand up river to Blount Island. That area could grow like Riverside Drive if properly managed and zoned.

And sorry, I have no idea who made those upper-level deveopment decisions, that was beyond my pay grade at the time. I just did the statistical analysis of the surveys and reported the results.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

That twitter thread about the city having to borrow their side of the money so the actual investment is nearly double what it was advertised as is awfully damning. I can't see how this is a wise investment in it's current state.

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What is JAX without the Jaguars? Seriously.

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Of course we'll survive without the Jaguars. However, passing up this opportunity to leverage the visibility and potential for growth an NFL franchise brings to the city is shortsighted and, well, dumb. Plenty of other successful franchises spent decades lost in the wilderness before they achieved notoriety. The Jags are no different. It's my fear if we let the team relocate, Jacksonville will suffer even worse from its label as a backwater hick town. You might be satisfied with that, but many of us aren't. 

 DIA passes Lot J recommendations on to Jacksonville City Council

Council will have special committee meeting on project Thursday

You think a decent football team and a few hotels will change how people view Jacksonville? lol. An NFL franchise is a net negative to every hosting city economically speaking. "Growth" as you explain it comes largely from exploiting taxpayers into thinking these things are good for their city in the long run(they aren't) https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/sta...ll-073015/. This is like trying to replenish a swimming pool by taking water from the deep end and dumping it in the shallow end and thinking the pool will eventually be full. An NFL team will never grow a city, nor will a few hotels all of a sudden make people think North Florida isn't hickville. I think that's pretty naive to think this team or a few hotels would do anything to help J'villes image.

If just a the stadium is the end all, then nothing will happen. The purpose of building other amenities and attractions is to promote growth downtown. Adding these won't change Jacksonville's image overnight, as building Lot J won't instantly develop downtown. It all starts somewhere and this is a great opportunity to do so.

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What is JAX without the Jaguars? Seriously.

A quiet southern town with a nice beach community and a bit more economic diversity than some other parts of Florida. Rather have the Jags then not but not at any cost.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

What is JAX without the Jaguars? Seriously.

A quiet southern town with a nice beach community and a bit more economic diversity than some other parts of Florida. Rather have the Jags then not but not at any cost.

The problem is it is a nice quiet southern town with an uncomfortably large portion of the population and leadership that is content on being unprogressive. Too many in this town are perfectly content to stew in their own juices of mediocrity while ignoring, and even shunning, potential.

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A quiet southern town with a nice beach community and a bit more economic diversity than some other parts of Florida. Rather have the Jags then not but not at any cost.

The problem is it is a nice quiet southern town with an uncomfortably large portion of the population and leadership that is content on being unprogressive. Too many in this town are perfectly content to stew in their own juices of mediocrity while ignoring, and even shunning, potential.

Wait, not taking on extra debt to pay for upgrades/investments/development projects for a billionaire is progressive.


Honestly IDK why we still argue about lot J. The demand obviously isn’t there and that’s why Khan won’t do it on his own and wants the city to ‘build it and they will come’ for him. He sees the downside and doesn’t think it’s worth going all in on his own. I agree, downtown Jax is not worth the money right now, and building lot J would be forcing the situation. Especially since Khan keeps flirting with moving to London I wouldn’t throw a red penny towards it. Khan is in charge here. If he wants to commit to Jacksonville then maybe I would help with that boondoggle, but anything less than 20+ years and there’s no way I go down that hole, we might never see ROI and basically end up with the orange bowl in Orlando (useless stadium used for random sporting events in a area that nobody really wants to live in).

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

A quiet southern town with a nice beach community and a bit more economic diversity than some other parts of Florida. Rather have the Jags then not but not at any cost.

The problem is it is a nice quiet southern town with an uncomfortably large portion of the population and leadership that is content on being unprogressive. Too many in this town are perfectly content to stew in their own juices of mediocrity while ignoring, and even shunning, potential.

I agree, I'd rather see us continue to progress culturally, economically, etc. But I don't think the town would regress if the Jags left although progress would slow. I like the downtown area, I think it gets a bad rep but it has a lot of room for improvement too. Jags can help that happen. I'm just saying you can't have an open checkbook with no questions asked.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

The problem is it is a nice quiet southern town with an uncomfortably large portion of the population and leadership that is content on being unprogressive. Too many in this town are perfectly content to stew in their own juices of mediocrity while ignoring, and even shunning, potential.

Wait, not taking on extra debt to pay for upgrades/investments/development projects for a billionaire is progressive.


Honestly IDK why we still argue about lot J. The demand obviously isn’t there and that’s why Khan won’t do it on his own and wants the city to ‘build it and they will come’ for him. He sees the downside and doesn’t think it’s worth going all in on his own. I agree, downtown Jax is not worth the money right now, and building lot J would be forcing the situation. Especially since Khan keeps flirting with moving to London I wouldn’t throw a red penny towards it. Khan is in charge here. If he wants to commit to Jacksonville then maybe I would help with that boondoggle, but anything less than 20+ years and there’s no way I go down that hole, we might never see ROI and basically end up with the orange bowl in Orlando (useless stadium used for random sporting events in a area that nobody really wants to live in).

Ironic, because Camping World stadium is actually newer than the 'bank.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

What is JAX without the Jaguars? Seriously.

Richmond, St Louis, Birmingham, Columbus, Memphis, San Diego, Oakland, Portland, Des Moines, Greensboro, NC, Oklahoma City

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Khan runs a losing team. Start winning to earn the right for upgrades.

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Wait, not taking on extra debt to pay for upgrades/investments/development projects for a billionaire is progressive.


Honestly IDK why we still argue about lot J. The demand obviously isn’t there and that’s why Khan won’t do it on his own and wants the city to ‘build it and they will come’ for him. He sees the downside and doesn’t think it’s worth going all in on his own. I agree, downtown Jax is not worth the money right now, and building lot J would be forcing the situation. Especially since Khan keeps flirting with moving to London I wouldn’t throw a red penny towards it. Khan is in charge here. If he wants to commit to Jacksonville then maybe I would help with that boondoggle, but anything less than 20+ years and there’s no way I go down that hole, we might never see ROI and basically end up with the orange bowl in Orlando (useless stadium used for random sporting events in a area that nobody really wants to live in).

Ironic, because Camping World stadium is actually newer than the 'bank.

Which was also a mistake. If I was mayor of Jax I wouldn’t upgrade anything without a 20 year lease with no option to break or at least a huge penalty like 2 billion dollars. Especially when you are doing 20 years what seems like a big penalty (say the jags 100 million dollar current penalty) can end up actually being small. 100 million wouldn’t stop a move to London if the franchise value would double to over 2 billion. But a 2 billion dollar penalty, that would probably take more than 20 years to pencil out. It would also be a reasonable sign of good faith commitment over a time period I should expect to be able to grow the area around the stadium.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

Ironic, because Camping World stadium is actually newer than the 'bank.

Which was also a mistake. If I was mayor of Jax I wouldn’t upgrade anything without a 20 year lease with no option to break or at least a huge penalty like 2 billion dollars. Especially when you are doing 20 years what seems like a big penalty (say the jags 100 million dollar current penalty) can end up actually being small. 100 million wouldn’t stop a move to London if the franchise value would double to over 2 billion. But a 2 billion dollar penalty, that would probably take more than 20 years to pencil out. It would also be a reasonable sign of good faith commitment over a time period I should expect to be able to grow the area around the stadium.

Orlando paid for it with bed taxes.  Orlando gets 3 college bowl games plus the Florida classic, that's 4.  In a non covid year, the 7 or 8 jags home games drive about as much hotel business as FL-GA and the gator bowl.  So there is a symmetry there between Jax and orlando.
If the stadium upgrades are paid out of bed taxes and the Lot J upgrades are paid for out of the same or a special improvement district tax, there isn't much real exposure for the ordinary taxpayer.
But I think Shad's been getting money out of the general city budget too.  That shouldn't continue.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Khan runs a losing team.  Start winning to earn the right for upgrades.

Distilled down to its purest form, this is the answer.

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Khan runs a losing team.  Start winning to earn the right for upgrades.

Distilled down to its purest form, this is the answer.

I second that.

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Who has ownership of it? I know the city will get taxes, but who is taking the profit? It's not the city. I would say the city either loans Khan the money or the city is an investor and takes a split of all revenues.


I would also add if Khan moves the team, the ownership is forfeited to the city (with any outstanding debt paid by Khan) and that clause transfers to all transactions if he were to sell the ownership of Lot J.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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What the NFL owners want in order to expand their revenue base in every city is this. They want fans that travel to the city to see their teams play to stay in their hotels, eat at their restaurants, find entertainment at their places. Well as much of it as they can. This will reduce the economic impact to business other than the team a bit. Most likely that is the hold up in some people's mind.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Lot J on hold?

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A quiet southern town with a nice beach community and a bit more economic diversity than some other parts of Florida. Rather have the Jags then not but not at any cost.

The problem is it is a nice quiet southern town with an uncomfortably large portion of the population and leadership that is content on being unprogressive. Too many in this town are perfectly content to stew in their own juices of mediocrity while ignoring, and even shunning, potential.

If by 'progressive', you mean San Fran, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Baltimore, Philly, Detroit, etc, then umm, no thanks.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption