(08-10-2017, 03:56 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:

(08-09-2017, 10:29 PM)Vino Wrote: I wanted to point out these two posts because they show a clear dismissal and disregard of black issues in America. "oppressed or whatever". lol ok dude. I'm not sure if one single black person has posted in this thread so far (other than me now), doesn't seem like it. Regardless, if you can't see the conflict black people in this country could have with reciting our anthem and praising our flag then you are just as ignorant as some of you are trying to paint Kaepernick as on social issues. Since you mentioned it, what exactly does our flag stand for? For white people whose families immigrated from Europe and fought to secede from the oppression (or whatever) of the British Empire and its king, sure it stands for freedom and justice. But for minorities, specifically blacks and Native Americans, it is a direct refusal to acknowledge and dismissal of past events to expect us to look at it that way. I have struggled all my life and even now with being black and still being expected to have true love and respect for a flag (by certain white people) that for all intents and purposes 1) my ancestors never chose to have to be in a situation to be under, 2) represents a country that directly enslaved and then oppressed and then locked us up on a massive level, and then 3) many people force emphatically in your face to love it or get out because all they give a crap about is their perspective. Even if we did want to get out, not many of us can afford to do so in the first place because of years of, again, oppression and not having any type of wealth or land to build off of to begin with. 

There is a fundamental difference between blacks and whites when it comes to praising our flag and upholding the anthem that a lot of white people either don't understand or don't want to understand, or just don't respect enough to give a damn if they do in the first place, for whatever reason. Ancestors of whites CHOSE to be in this country, by and large. My ancestors did not, and were treated like pieces of property, and later generations were treated like second class citizens. And with my great grandmother being a Native American, the other part of my ancestry had its land taken away from it by people bearing this flag. Where is the freedom and justice in that? Our flag is not perfect and nor has this country represented freedom and justice for its entire history, and still doesn't to this day. Live in your fairy tale lands if you want to. The lives black people have had to live over the course of this country's history does not lead to our young ones  growing up "patriotic" and "American" in the sense some of you use here. Don't blame us, blame the circumstances that brought us here. I wouldn't go so far to say we have no reason to feel patriotic or American but I feel pretty close to that. This country historically hasn't loved us and it still doesn't. But instead of having a constructive dialogue to fix that, a lot of white people say "f'em". K. So you're going to have people like Kaepernick who show the level of respect he feels he gets from white America.


I'm not arguing whether or not Kaepernick took his stance in a dumb way, perhaps he did, I wasn't in the same situation to judge. Taking a stance that would piss off half the people you were trying to talk to isn't constructive, but maybe he perceived that as the only way to get some people to even pay attention to the issue and maybe he's right. All that is hearsay. My issue is with the flagrant "[BLEEP]" attitude a lot of you seem to have when it comes to black issues in general, as if there is no merit to them. Specifically jagibelieve.  

As for the pig socks, that's how a lot of black people feel about dirty cops who abuse their power instead of protect people, as well as whites. The police in this country are supposed to be peacekeepers and protect the people in their communities, not be some sort of pseudo-para military that is able to act as judge, jury, and executioners and get away with it. Imo police shouldn't even have guns in the first place. Again, I'm not defending the concept of wearing the socks themselves, but I don't agree with how people in this country ignore the fact that police brutality happens, and it happens a lot in poor neighborhoods and ghettos, which happens to be where the majority of blacks in this country live. For example, when all that crap was going down last year, at the RNC, Trump and other Republicans chose to ram the hammer for "protecting our cops" and made absolutely no mention whatsoever of why there was violence against cops in the first place, like it didn't matter. 

I don't like SJWs, overly PC people, and all that either, but flat out ignoring the issues that 40 million people in this country have to deal with is not a good way of going about things either.

Oh boo... hoo...  spare me your [BLEEP] story about history.

Seriously.  You know nothing about me or my ancestors who happen to be non-white and lived in this country long before the Revolutionary War.  You know nothing about how my ancestor's villages and ranches were plundered during the Civil War and afterwards and how women were routinely raped.  You know nothing about how my mother got slapped by school teachers/administrators because she dared speak in her native tongue.  I could go on and on, but it doesn't really matter because it has nothing to do with so-called "black issues".

The only "black issues" that some, not all black people have today is that they are failures regarding family and society.  Does racism exist in today's society?  No question about it, yes it does.  However, why not use that as a strength rather than a crutch?  There are many examples of black people becoming successful even when society was worse regarding race issues (1950 - 1970 time frame).  Ben Carson and Condoleeza Rice immediately come to mind, especially Dr. Carson.  Another that comes to mind is Herman Cain.  However, because they happen to be conservative regarding their politics they are often labeled as "Uncle Tom".

This country is great and always has been.  Has it always been perfect?  Absolutely not.  To dwell on the mistakes made in the history of our country in 2017 and use it as an excuse is nothing more than a cop-out.  EVERYONE that is a United States citizen has the same opportunity no matter their race, skin color, sex, etc.

One of the big problems in today's society is political correctness and people afraid to actually speak their minds.  I'm not afraid to do so.  I think that a lot of the "black issues" in today's society are self-inflicted.  What ever happened to personal responsibility and hard work?  What ever happened to the traditional family?  Why are there so many single parent homes today, both black and white?

Every person in this country has equal means to succeed...ANYONE can get student loans and go on to college to be anything they choose to be...Wanna be a DR? Ok you can be as long as you graduate from high school and can pass the classes and required testing, you can be one...Same for a lawyer, an architect, an engineer, mechanic, and there are even trade schools that offer blue collar jobs such as welder, (pay is very good) heating and air, carpenter, electrician (even has an apprentice training)...The education is there for everyone...

My point is that anyone and everyone has the exact same resources at their disposal to have a good career and a nice life...Every one, no matter their race or where their ancestors came from, or what was happening 200 hundred years ago, has the resources the same things...

If one chooses to not graduate from high school and go on to a higher learning facility, they can still succeed...Many people have good good careers without college...But one thing is for damm sure, if you drop out of high school and live the "street life" it's by choice, not fate, not circumstance, not because of what happened 200 years ago, it's all about choices one made...

---