(04-20-2018, 08:10 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote:

(04-20-2018, 11:04 AM)rollerjag Wrote: Did the men say they had no plans to buy anything the entire time they were there, or just waiting on the third person before ordering?

My point is there can be two sides. In a predominately black city, the manager has surely dealt with black people loitering in his Starbucks, and it's probably a problem. Are you really going to say if it was two white men there is no chance they would have been treated differently, no chance they would be given more than 2 minutes? I'm not going to claim to know what it's like to live as a black man in America, I can only go on my experiences with a few friends and co-workers, and things they've told me. They don't complain, they don't cry racism, they just make a strong case - they are often treated differently, in mostly subtle ways. It is not absurd to think the manager was at least either just afraid, or bigoted, not necessarily without reason. It's also not unreasonable to believe the two men were justified in pushing the issue enough to force an arrest, just to make a point.

I think both sides could have handled this better, but apparently one side may have just had enough.

By their own admission, they were told it was paying customers only and he simply left the conversation (implying he didn't want to purchase anything) and sat down with his friend. They said the manager came up to them and asked if she could take their order, and he said that they brought their own water into the store--that they were "fine". Then he said that he was waiting for a meeting and would be "out really quick". Seems obvious to me that they didn't want to purchase anything.

Your argument requires that we believe:
1.) The manager was racially biased
2.) The manager wanted them to leave rather than purchasing anything
3.) The manager's decision was based partially or completely because of race
4.) The manager wouldn't have done the same to white customers not wanting to do business
5.) The customer's behavior didn't contribute to the request to leave

If you say that you believe all of the above are correct, then you're asking us to assume all of the worst-case scenarios happened which is the most unlikely scenario. If you say one of these scenarios are incorrect, then I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that it was racially motivated. This leads me to believe that the most likely scenario is probably what happens most... the customers got upset at the manager's request purchase something instead of getting their way.

Your post is filled with anecdotal evidence. Some of my very own experience would suggest otherwise. It isn't unreasonable to believe someone would force officers to arrest them for something I'm sure they didn't want to get arrest for. I've seen it hundred of times, especially with businesses. Customers feel entitled to service and refuse to leave until they get it. They think that they can bully the employees and eventually the police into getting their way. It often leads to an arrest.

Well done list, except 1, 3 and 4 are essentially the same thing. It is possible the manager was at least biased in his assessment that the 2 men were not there to buy something for the duration of their visit, and that's all it takes for my scenario to be possible.

Filled with anecdotal evidence? I did not give a single anecdote. What you apparently meant was my opinion is based on the anecdotes of people who have experienced the type of thing we're discussing here. I'm sorry, but what they tell me bears more weight with me than your experiences. My black friends and co-workers weren't political activists, or even complaining. They were just relating what happened to them.

 I have no idea how you managed to be a police officer in the south and still think racial bias is rare, but it is what it is.

---