(04-20-2018, 09:04 PM)Jamies_fried_chicken Wrote:

(04-19-2018, 03:30 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: They were asked to do business or leave. They refused to comply with Starbucks' request. They're in a busy part of Philadelphia; it isn't like they have empty space for non-paying customers.

When the police show up, they were confrontational and again refused to do business or leave. The police are even saying that they were insulting and uncooperative.

Are we really suggesting that it's racist to kick out a non-paying customer now? C'mon

 
Man you hate minorities.

You can't not be a victim, huh?

(04-20-2018, 10:12 PM)rollerjag Wrote:

(04-20-2018, 08:10 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: By their own admission, they were told it was paying customers only and he simply left the conversation (implying he didn't want to purchase anything) and sat down with his friend. They said the manager came up to them and asked if she could take their order, and he said that they brought their own water into the store--that they were "fine". Then he said that he was waiting for a meeting and would be "out really quick". Seems obvious to me that they didn't want to purchase anything.

Your argument requires that we believe:
1.) The manager was racially biased
2.) The manager wanted them to leave rather than purchasing anything
3.) The manager's decision was based partially or completely because of race
4.) The manager wouldn't have done the same to white customers not wanting to do business
5.) The customer's behavior didn't contribute to the request to leave

If you say that you believe all of the above are correct, then you're asking us to assume all of the worst-case scenarios happened which is the most unlikely scenario. If you say one of these scenarios are incorrect, then I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that it was racially motivated. This leads me to believe that the most likely scenario is probably what happens most... the customers got upset at the manager's request purchase something instead of getting their way.

Your post is filled with anecdotal evidence. Some of my very own experience would suggest otherwise. It isn't unreasonable to believe someone would force officers to arrest them for something I'm sure they didn't want to get arrest for. I've seen it hundred of times, especially with businesses. Customers feel entitled to service and refuse to leave until they get it. They think that they can bully the employees and eventually the police into getting their way. It often leads to an arrest.

Well done list, except 1, 3 and 4 are essentially the same thing. It is possible the manager was at least biased in his assessment that the 2 men were not there to buy something for the duration of their visit, and that's all it takes for my scenario to be possible.

Filled with anecdotal evidence? I did not give a single anecdote. What you apparently meant was my opinion is based on the anecdotes of people who have experienced the type of thing we're discussing here. I'm sorry, but what they tell me bears more weight with me than your experiences. My black friends and co-workers weren't political activists, or even complaining. They were just relating what happened to them.

 I have no idea how you managed to be a police officer in the south and still think racial bias is rare, but it is what it is.

They can me mutually exclusive. Of course it's possible she was racist, but it's also possible that the men treated her as the police say they were treated. Which, for me, seems to make the most sense. They probably pissed her off and she kicked them out. 

I honestly don't care how my opinion weighs with you. I'm not looking for your sympathy, but if you honestly think there's a difference in my examples versus those of your friends, then you're purposely choosing to find experiences that support your argument and exclude others. That was my point. 

My opinion of racism is that it's rare overall but exhibited by everyone. White people tend to be more discrete and black people are more upfront about it. It isn't, however, a problem and rarely effects the someone's life. It's an overly exaggerated problem.

---

(04-21-2018, 03:52 AM)Achilles Wrote: According to what I have read....the police were called within 2 minutes of the customers arriving. 2 minutes.

The manager that made the call has already left the company and they're shutting down for a day costing themselves a ton of money.

I've had customers yell at me for more than two straight minutes, threaten to shoot me, threaten to stab me, etc..... And the police have never arrested any of them. They've come out, asked both parties what happened and have never made an arrest once.

Racism is a huge issue and to pretend like it had nothing to do with this situation is just swimming further in denial.

I'm going to assume that the manager and the two customers are going to sue and win money. Starbucks will settle with both parties. Starbucks has already admitted wrongdoing and assigned a racial motive to her actions. She'll likely feel like her character is defamed, and they'll all see a lot of money from this. Stabucks didn't handle this well legally. 

Did the customers admit they threatened you? I'm guessing it was he-said, she-said on your situation. They openly told the police they wouldn't leave at Starbucks. They don't need a whole lot of evidence there.

---