(10-24-2019, 09:49 AM)mikesez Wrote:

(10-23-2019, 11:17 PM)jj82284 Wrote: The level of ignorance is getting pretty ridiculous.  How many times, in how many languages do we have to keep telling you That there is no evidence that the Ukrainians actually knew that the aid was being withheld.  

Maybe you're right that there's no evidence that the Ukrainians realized aid was withheld, but what the Ukrainians thought is immaterial to the question of if power was abused.
The question is, were we trying to influence the Ukrainians in an abusive way? Whether or not we succeeded is besides the point.
To take your example, if I accuse you of hiring a hitman to kill your own wife, saying "look! She's still alive!" isn't much of a defense.  Trying to hire a hitman is illegal whether or not the hitman takes your money, and whether or not the hitman actually kills the target.

Here we go again.  

Trump did x.

Completely empirically and verifiably disprove it.  

Well he WANTED TO.  

In determining an extortive act you have to demonstrate that the subject felt pressure, they didnt.  

To demonstrate corrupt intent you have to demonstrate that there is no evidence that the Ukrainian or bidens past behavior could conceivably meet the reasonable suspicion standard for corrupt illicit or illegal activity.  There is evidence.  Moreover, the witnesses who are testifying their interpretations of corrupt intent are demonstrating consistent ignorance of the evidence.  

So to carry out the analogy because a guy got into a fight with his wife u accuse him of conspiring to kill her but THERE WAS NO HITMAN!  

How do we know this?  Because all of the illicit flashpoints by the left have been disproven: 

Schiff said he tried to get the ukrainians to fabricate information. LIE

they say he mentioned a quid pro quo 7 or 8 times Never mentioned military aid ONCE on the entire phone call.  The left is falsely conflating Ukrainian purchase of arms with the transaction in question.  

Already mentioned the Ukrainians didnt know.  

They say Giuliani was doing oppo research, this was all born out of his work on Trumps defense against Mueller.  

They said the investigation into hunter was over when the guy was fired.  We know that's a lie.  

They said Joe Biden didnt know.  Open source reporting shows thats a lie.  

But hey, when its Republican evidence be darned let's endlessly investigate and subpoena because of the SERIOUSNESS OF THE CHARGE.  

when a Democrat loses a billion dollars to a ukrainian oligarch who happens to be paying his son  million dollars a year, nothing to see here.  Joe's just fighting corruption.  

Give me a break.

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