(06-11-2020, 03:15 PM)D-Money Wrote: (06-10-2020, 02:20 PM)Kane Wrote: Except that one good season was with a roster he (Caldwell) built.
Coughlin had just showed up. Added Fournette and Robinson to the offense via draft (Coughlin guys that almost no one on this board likes) And added Campbell, Bouye, and Church via free agency. The defensive additions were on point sure, but also gave us a bit of a cap hindrance that we hit this season.
That season was good with a team that Caldwell mostly built without Coughlin. Linder, Parnell, Cann, and Omameh were 4 OL guys brought in before Coughlin. Bortles was the QB, and love him or hate him it was clearly his best season.
Pro bowlers from that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Ramsey, Telvin Smith, Malik, and Yannick.
A bunch of other guys on that team that Coughlin had nothing to do with: Poz, Jack, Fowler Jr, pretty much all of the WRs & TEs.
I mean, you guys can keep arguing it over and over again, Caldwell had a hand in the successes and failures of this team since he's showed up. He's had good draft selections and bad ones. Same with free agency.
But to discredit 2017 and say that was Coughlin isn't just disingenious it's flat out wrong.
But Coughlin's hand in over spending for free agents (which isn't something new) and his alienating players (also, not new) is pretty much the #1 reason our roster is in its current state as opposed to building upon what good had been built by 2017.
Every decision, draft selection, free agent signing, and contract extension since Coughlin's arrival ran though him. So Bortles' extension, Lee's extension, paying Jack before Ramsey and Yannick, Taven Bryan over Jackson, drafting Fournette over CMC, etc etc. That's on Coughlin, not Caldwell.
I don't hold Caldwell to some high regard though. We should have moved on probably twice already. I just call bull when I see it. And to pretend like Caldwell had nothing to do with 2017 and Coughlin was the reason for our success is laughable, otherwise, we would have continued to be successful beyond that one year.
This is the issue. All we are basing this on is that Caldwell was here for a certain number or years, for those years the team was bad. One year 2017, when Coughlin gets here, a former Super Bowl winning coach and was the coach when we were good. The one year we turn it around and are good. Coughlin is gone again and we suck again.
No one is saying that it is guaranteed that Coughlin made us good for 2017. We are saying that no matter what different circumstances that have happened that year and allowed us to be good, it def wasn't just Caldwell that did it.
Just really understand, Caldwell is a GM, he has picked some good players and some have fallen into his lap but overall with not being able to retain that talent and missing on different picks at key positions at the same time keeping coaches who are no good, plus our overall losing record under him, He is a bad GM, he may be an ok scout or college talent evaluator.
Stop making things more complicated by coming up with things we don't know for sure about and what may have happened behind closed doors.
JUST LOOk AT THE RESULTS and THE CURRENT STATE OF THE FRANCHISE SINCE HE HAS BECOME GM
Per the bold: We sucked the very next year and Coughlin was still here. For 2 more seasons essentially.
Had Coughlin never showed up perhaps we end up with CMC instead of Fournette.
Perhaps we move on from Bortles instead of extending him.
Perhaps we pay Ramsey and Yan early and the defense remains elite for years.
Without Coughlin, we're probably still good in 2017 honestly.
You can capitalize words all you want. It doesn't change what I was arguing. 2017 wasn't good because of Coughlin. It was a roster mostly built by the GM Caldwell, with an easy schedule, a terrible AFCS, and a little bit of luck.
The roster was mostly made before Coughlin. It's in its current state mostly because of Coughlin. There's no two ways around it. It's only complicated for simple people who feel the need to bang the keyboard angrily that they aren't right.
Like I said, Caldwell hasn't been great. And we should have moved on multiple times now.
But trying to credit Coughlin with 2017 is asinine to say the least.
But one could look at the current roster and cap situation and certainly give a lot of that credit to Coughlin.
