(06-11-2020, 08:38 PM)D-Money Wrote: (06-11-2020, 03:35 PM)Kane Wrote: Per the bold: We sucked the very next year and Coughlin was still here. For 2 more seasons essentially.
Had Coughlin never showed up perhaps we end up with CMC instead of Fournette.
Perhaps we move on from Bortles instead of extending him.
Perhaps we pay Ramsey and Yan early and the defense remains elite for years.
Without Coughlin, we're probably still good in 2017 honestly.
You can capitalize words all you want. It doesn't change what I was arguing. 2017 wasn't good because of Coughlin. It was a roster mostly built by the GM Caldwell, with an easy schedule, a terrible AFCS, and a little bit of luck.
The roster was mostly made before Coughlin. It's in its current state mostly because of Coughlin. There's no two ways around it. It's only complicated for simple people who feel the need to bang the keyboard angrily that they aren't right.
Like I said, Caldwell hasn't been great. And we should have moved on multiple times now.
But trying to credit Coughlin with 2017 is asinine to say the least.
But one could look at the current roster and cap situation and certainly give a lot of that credit to Coughlin.
I'm convinced you are paying attention to only what you want to see. If you look at my following statement, I said clearly no one is saying that Coughlin is the reason we were good in 2017. I'm saying Caldwell shouldn't get credit for the 2017 year alone because he has had 7 years and has not duplicated the success of the one season. And you keep saying perhaps or maybe....
why do you keep trying to add things we will never really know for sure or understand.
Look at the facts and what we can see. 7 years as a GM and out of those 7 years, 1 was successful. The successful year was only when someone else was put in charge. You either don't want to understand or have to be someone knows Caldwell personally.
If you had a job for 7 years and only had 1 good year when they hired someone to oversee you're job and that person has a known track record of having success there, would you take the credit for the 1 year? Or would it be questionable overall?
What is reason for the thread, is Caldwell really that bad? Yes he is based on his results! Is 1 and 6 a good record to you?
Does Coughlin deserves all the credit for 2017? No but Caldwell damn sure doesn't deserve all either.
Actually it was clearly insinuated that Coughlin was the reason we were good in 2017 when the statement reads "The one year we were good was when Coughlin showed up" or something to that effect.
Wins and losses fall on more than the quality of the roster. The Gus Bradley years severely underperformed, imo. Injuries, poor coaching, roster quality... lots goes into wins and losses.
The whole jab at me knowing Caldwell personally is childish, especially considering multiple times I've said he hasn't been good enough and we should have moved on already. So clearly, I'm no apologist for Caldwell. I just call out bull hyperbole when I see it. Caldwell hasn't been the worst GM in the NFL during his tenure. He hasn't been the worst GM we've had. He actually had the roster going in the right direction before Coughlin showed up. There was a lot of optimism outside of the QB position.
To answer the question of the thread "is he THAT bad" no. Not as bad as everyone likes to make it out to be. He's actually done a lot of good. He's also made some boneheaded moves. You can look at the record in a vacuum if you wish, but dude isn't on the field. He isn't coaching the roster. He isn't designing the schemes. Once Coughlin was here, he wasn't even making the draft selections and contract extensions alone. That stuff falls on Coughlin who had FINAL say over the roster.
And I've never tried to give Caldwell all the credit for anything. Just think people who seem to worship Coughlin are idiots. There's more evidence that Coughlin actually made this team worse. And people who get emotionally hyperbolic about Caldwell are silly. There's more evidence that the roster was heading in the right direction before Coughlin showed up. Khan made a decision that Coughlin needed to come in to oversee football operations. In doing so they made big money FA splashes, extended the wrong guys, picked a RB early in the first, a role player DL in the first the next year, and alienated at least 2 star players.
I call a spade a spade every time.
