(08-11-2021, 08:48 AM)Race Bannon Wrote:

(08-11-2021, 07:59 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: But I would not say Communists and liberals were the reason for the existence of the Nazi Party.  They were some of the victims.  But saying liberals and communists were the reason the Nazi Party existed is like blaming the Jews for the Holocaust.

This is a deeply misguided view, one that fails to understand the yin/yang relationship between the Communists and the Fascists.  It's understandable, because in the post-War era, the intelligentsia of the Left shut down all thought about fascism and basically made the word synonymous with "bad."  But fascism must be understood as a competing doctrine of the Left, a heretical variant of Marxism.  Just as Stalinism was not true Marxism.  What was unfolding in Europe was a titanic struggle between two different visions of what "socialism" meant -- that propounded by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), or the National Socialist Party (Nazi).  Germany's race theories complicate the picture -- but there was antecedent for those in Germany going back 100 years.  Franco, Mussolini and others lamented the way facism got blended in with the race theories of Germany.  


But it was a clash -- in the streets, the bars, the "pusch halls" and everywhere.  And people's justified fear and loathing of the Stalinist Left is one thing that pushed support for European Fascism -- which by standards of American conservatism, is a profoundly left wing model of government and society. 

The most important reason to understand this -- putting aside rooting for your "team" to be the supposed good guys of history and longing for the other "team" to be the bad guys of history -- is that what survived WWII is this idea:  the countries we call "communist" today are actually way more similar to the ideals of true fascism.  China is practically and ethno-state, but putting aside ethnicity its nationalism is strong, and it preserves so called "private enterprise" in the same way the Third Reich did.  Favored oligarchs of the party gobble up all the opportunity to make billions, so long as they are loyal the Party. 

American and the USSR teamed up to destroy the Third Reich, but its ideas about government have survived.  Fascism is the preferred "form" of communism now -- it was a reaction to the "worldwide revolution" that Marxists were supposedly for at the time (which meant everyone answering to Moscow).  No one anymore is for the one world government that the USSR was insisting on then (except maybe Cuba and Venezuela).  

The Left has now become the Third Reich -- they just figured out they needed to reverse the script:  instead of purporting to vindicate a master race, they needed to reverse direction and GO AFTER it.  They needed to claim they are vindicating the downtrodden (minorities, women, LGBTQ, etc.), because this appeals to the religious, virtuous impulse of the post-WWII mind.  Instead of going after the "elite Jews that are running everything and enriching themselves" (Nazi message), they've made whites the Jews also.  

So no, communists were not the "victims" of fascism -- they are the revolving butt-buddy of fascism.
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Get over here on the side of liberty, individualism, limited and small government -- it's the other side from all that mess.

The assertion was that liberals and communists were the reason the Nazi Party existed.  I disagree with that.   Liberals and communists were way down the list of reasons the Nazi Party existed.  The Nazis rose as a result of the loss in World War 1, and the reaction in Germany to that loss, plus the rise of nationalism, the existence of anti-Semitism, and the Great Depression.  It was a toxic stew of nationalism, anti-semitism, and the big lie the populace was being told about whether they were actually winning or losing WW1 when it ended.   

But I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole arguing about it.  I would simply encourage you to study the situation in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s, and the history of Fascism and the Nazi Party.

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