(09-19-2021, 01:29 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:

(09-18-2021, 10:03 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: C'mon, dude. The reason you hate Trump so much is that he's one of the few Presidents where the media actually called him out for lying. AND, I've said this before, most of his lies have to do with his ego. The should call him out for lying, but it makes me sick to my stomach that so many people have gotten used to politicians lying to us, that they justify terrible policy. 

At least things were improving under Trump. He was pretty good on policy. IF trump did the exact same thing as Biden did here, it would be endless news coverage. What Biden did is terrible. He completely botched the Afghanistan withdrawal, and this drone strike was supposed to be a retaliation for us losing servicemen in a terrorist attack. He hit an innocent family. He called it a terrorist group, and bragged about America's strength, all to cover for his incompetence. Then people started saying it wasn't a terrorist, and his administration doubled down. These are lies that matter. 

It's one thing to say, "we got bad intel... our hearts go out to the families and we need to do better, but this is what happens in these kinds of conflicts." That was Obama's approach on the few times the media called him out for it. Again, that stuff happens. Biden is SO incompetent, and to dismiss it by saying all Presidents lie just astounds me. The Biden administration is ruining everything it touches. This is the worst President of my lifetime and it's not even close. Name an area he's succeeding in or making things better for Americans. Just one.

Trump went after big pharma. He lowered the cost of the epipen and brought a successful lawsuit against the makers of Oxycontin. He was the first President in 30 years who hasn't started another war. The economy was heading in the right direction. China was starting to cave (so much so there's a chance they released Covid intentionally). He brought peace in the middle east. He increased jobs for blacks and Hispanics. There were less people crossing the border than ever. He was expanding the capabilities of our military. 

I get it. Trump had a turd of a personality, but the dude got stuff done. He lied about the size of his hands, and the crowd at his inauguration. He lied about how much money he spent on McDonalds for the national champs. He had to take credit for everything, even when it was clear he didn't know what he was talking about. He was a sore loser, a narcissist, and a demagogue (much like every news pundit on national TV). I make all those concessions... but he was WORLDS better than Biden. To make it worse, you could arguably put the blame for the divisiveness in this country on the media and not Trump. That's my position. If they treated Biden the same way, we'd all hate him, too. 

It astounds me that you give this dude a pass for lying when it's all you talked about with Trump. When you look at everything that's happening with this administration, the last thing you should be saying about people calling him out is that we're transparent. This dude and his administration are trash.

I hate Trump for a myriad of reasons. It's definitely NOT just one thing. As far as people getting used to politicians lying, what do you expect? It happens so much that people are starting to realize you can't be an honest person and maintain that honesty while having a career in politics. We've become desensitized to the lying, because it's an everyday occurrence. We could whine and complain, but where will that get us? It's certainly not gonna make these politicians grow a conscience. It's just one of those things we come to accept, because we cannot change it. 

I couldn't disagree with that statement more. Things started going downhill with Obama, Trump made them awful and Biden is killing us. It just gets worse with every president. I don't know what kind of news you are watching, that you believe Biden is getting away with things. He's not. He's getting "skewered" all over the place for the terrible job he is doing. His approval ratings are in the toilet, but he was voted in as a direct response to just how much people hated Trump. I knew Biden was a terrible choice, but I certainly wasn't gonna sit through 4 more years of Trump, so I voted my conscience and cast my ballot for the Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen. Putting everything aside, her political leanings were closest to my own and she seemed like a very sensible person. If people ignore the notion that you have to vote either Democrat or Republican and instead just voted for the best candidate, we wouldn't be in this mess where we had to pick from Trump or Biden (two equally terrible choices.)

I saw Trump get rid of Obamacare, promise a bigger and better healthcare system for middle and low income people and then give us nothing in return. He created a huge rift between races with his divisive speeches and failure to immediately call out hate groups and he constantly ticked off our own allies. He was golfing 5 days a week and was never at the white house and when he spoke he acted like an ego maniac. He would get the extreme right all stirred up, because he knew those people were so gullible, he could easily manipulate them. It was these things as well as many, many other reasons why Biden was able to win the election, despite that he is a doddering old fool that doesn't know where he is half of the time. If trump wouldn't have lied about healthcare, wouldn't talk bad about our closest allies and just would've been a reasonable decent human being, we wouldn't be stuck with Joe Biden. Trump needs to accept his part in why we now have Joe Biden as a president. God help us. 

You admit that Trump lied on some minor things, but what about the lies he told about building a wall and having Mexico pay for it? What about the lie he told about replacing Obamacare with something better? Those were bad lies. Those lies along with his crappy personality lost him the election. It wasn't just his personality. I know some of his supporters wanna think that is the only reason, but nothing could be further from the truth. 

I'm not giving Biden a pass on lying, but Trump made me desensitized to politicians lying that I'm just accepting of it now, because that's what I expect. Why should Biden be any different than Trump? Everything that comes out of both of their mouths are lies. I've just become sick of the whole political process. Nothing is ever gonna change. It's just gonna continue to get worse and worse. I'm just gonna do the same thing for the Biden presidency that I did with the Trump presidency. I'll endure it for 4 years and just hope something better comes along, while realizing that it's probably just gonna get worse. 

Look at the bright side. Trump screwed things up so bad, that Biden beat him and the Democrats took over. Now, Biden is screwing things up so bad, that it is inevitable the Republicans will win the next presidential election and probably take back control the government again. That's how it goes. With every failure Biden has now, that just makes the odds swing back in the Republicans favor for the next election.

I feel like you continue to underestimate the role the media is playing in your apathy. Even if we take your two examples of Trump's BIG lies, it's not like he didn't try. Trump never said Mexico was going to directly pay for the wall. In fact, he told Wall Street journal he was going to get the money by renegotiating NAFTA, which he did. It wasn't enough to pay for the wall he was building, but it was at least something. The pundits all said he would never be able to renegotiate that deal. They said he'd never get any wall built, even though he managed to get up 450 miles in the face of super strong opposition. Where's your ire for THEIR lies? These dudes literally used pictures from the Obama regime to admonish Trump for his border policies. The media lies so much you can't even keep track of it anymore. 

As to his second big lie you mentioned, I don't think that was a high priority for Trump, I will give you that. However, in what world would he even be able to bring something like that to the table? He couldn't get bi-partisan support for ANYTHING. He couldn't even get Democrats to make concessions to help black owned business. Even still, which President gets ALL of their promises accomplished in a 4 year term? Do you think it's fair to hold one President to that standard, even though no other President has done that? It's an impossible ask. 

I have said it before and I will say it again: Trump is a narcissist. I think he truly wanted to good, if for nothing else than his own ego. I strongly believed Democrats could have leveraged his narcissism to enact many social policies, but that's not what happens at the political level. It's all about power, and giving the other side any amount of success is political suicide. That's the primary driver for the national Trump hate. The failure of moderates to recognize this simple fact is why their outlook on conservatives is so skewed.

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