(11-03-2021, 08:54 AM)Mikey Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 05:22 AM)Bullseye Wrote: The Rams approach is far from novel or original.  If you are focusing on the acquiring veteran aspect of it, Washington did that a lot in the 70s and 1980s.

But I think focusing on veterans alone misses a huge part of the analysis.

The Rams, like many other successful teams dating back to the 1980s, took chances on insanely talented guys lesser teams deemed too cancerous to retain.

[many good examples removed for space]

Why is it these so called cancers and malcontents were incompatible with their original teams winning but were able to help subsequent teams to championships?  If they were that caustic, that damaging to a team's psyche, why didn't they derail these teams from winning championships?  Why do these lesser teams who purge their rosters of these talented cancers almost never in a position to prosper after these guys leave?

The fact is, the lesser teams almost always make a mistake getting rid of talented players who have no substance abuse issues but who are otherwise deemed nuisances or cancers.  The better teams almost always exploit these teams and thier mistakes to their benefit.

I think in almost every example you gave, though, the malcontent/troublemaker was shipped off to a winner, often with a franchise QB or long-standing coach at the helm who wasn't going to tolerate the BS along the way. The teams for the most part were capable of winning with or without that new player, and the rest of the culture in that locker room is focused solely on the postseason. 

We've argued this point in the past, though. If you have a guy like Ramsey or Yan who simply refuse to take the field or try to drag the rest of the locker room down to their level of discontent, what other choice do you have but to ship them off? Usually the only teams willing to take on those challenges are the ones that are stable, built to win now, and are focused on maximizing present results in lieu of mortgaging future prospects in the form of picks needed to acquire the talented, yet disgruntled players.

Generally that's true but it's far from universal.

Jimmy Johnson was not a "long standing coach" at Dallas, only being there three years prior to acquiring Charles Haley.  Aikman had been there the same length of time, and had not established himself firmly as a franchise QB at the time of the Haley trade.

Gruden wasn't in Tampa long when he made the deal for Keyshawn.

But your post here raises troubling questions.

What are we to make of the Parcells era with the Giants? 

Phil Simms was drafted in 1979.  Lawrence Taylor arrived at the Giants in 1981.    Parcells arrived two years later.  Taylor was a known drug user who was always late to practice because of golfing and other activities.  he used to hire prostitutes and send them to opposing teams' RBs the night before a game.  Who knows what else he was into?  If the equation of having a cancer/malcontent is that it's only allowed with a franchise Qb and a long established coach, how did the Giants ascend to two time Super Bowl champs in 1986 & 1990 with Taylor?  Phil Simms was not established as a Pro bowl QB, nor was Parcells a long standing coach.  Under your line of thought, he couldn't have been brought under control or have been of any benefit to the Giants.  He should have just been shipped off because he was trouble.  Similarly, the Bucs didn't have a franchise QB or a long standing head coach when they drafted Warren Sapp in 1995.  They had lost and lost big for over a decade leading up to 1995.  Sapp has long been alleged by many to be a bad human being....or a turd.  Dungy had just arrived in 1995.  Under your logic, the Bucs should never have drafted him in the first place. 

As for teams being built to win now, doesn't that describe the Jaguars of 2019? The defense was still formidable after 17 and 18 still being young, talented and just two years removed from the AFC championship game. They signed Foles thinking that they weren't far away. They had to think they were close to winning. As for stability, I submit a franchise can't possibly be stable if they are constantly shipping out it's best players (see Jacksonville, 2019-present).

Those examples show that teams who err on the side of superior talent, whether drafting it or trading for it, reap the benefits in big ways.

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