It seems all of our GM's since the very early days have gone from Mediocre to Bad at drafting players.   The draft is a pure crap shoot but the jags constantly are crapping out with the picks.   The Rams over the last several years have traded almost all of their draft capital for guaranteed NFL talent.  Including Ramsey and Fowler from us.  I keep hearing the same old cliche of building through the draft but with all the draft captial we have had the past decade it's not working for us.  It is an out of the box idea but the Rams have been contenders for years now using this method.  

I for one am tired of seeing first round talent under perform here.  I would much rather trade that pick for proven NFL talent. Lets take our draft captial and do some shopping . Just a thought..

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Could always try hiring a competent GM and Head Coach

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Could always try hiring a competent GM and Head Coach

I'd rather this approach too.

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TRUST THE PROCESS --- This video is actually funny if you relate it to the Jaguars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TAGVDDOC_M

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It seems all of our GM's since the very early days have gone from Mediocre to Bad at drafting players.   The draft is a pure crap shoot but the jags constantly are crapping out with the picks.   The Rams over the last several years have traded almost all of their draft capital for guaranteed NFL talent.  Including Ramsey and Fowler from us.  I keep hearing the same old cliche of building through the draft but with all the draft captial we have had the past decade it's not working for us.  It is an out of the box idea but the Rams have been contenders for years now using this method.  

I for one am tired of seeing first round talent under perform here.  I would much rather trade that pick for proven NFL talent. Lets take our draft captial and do some shopping .  Just a thought..

It's an interesting model. They focus on late picks, and fill specific roles with them. So, you still have the task of hitting on the picks (and FA), but the risk is a lot lower when most of your work is being done on day 3 picks or leftover FA. Nobody else is doing that, and it's worked for them thusfar.

Von Miller will be a lot more expensive next year. I read that they're only on the hook for $1M this season, so win while you can. The model they are following does have limits. As guys get older, their likelihood to get hurt will rise, and they have been extremely fortunate to not lose key players for lengthy spells of time. When some of these guys come due for their next paycheck, is the cap room there to afford them? If not, how far in the future do you keep dealing to replace them?

Snead may be onto something. He may also be unemployed in three years if this leaves them up the creek.

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Jags just need to draft better.  

And spend more wisely in free agency.  Look at some of the high-priced free agents, Rayshawn Jenkins, Roy Robertson-Harris, Shaqille Griffin, etc.  Lots of salary cap dollars and high draft picks invested, but the Jags have the worst defense in the league.  Can't rush the passer, can't cover, can't create turnovers.  

Trading picks for players won't help.  Fix the true problems.

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Jags just need to draft better.  

And spend more wisely in free agency.  Look at some of the high-priced free agents, Rayshawn Jenkins, Roy Robertson-Harris, Shaqille Griffin, etc.  Lots of salary cap dollars and high draft picks invested, but the Jags have the worst defense in the league.  Can't rush the passer, can't cover, can't create turnovers.  

Trading picks for players won't help.  Fix the true problems.

Those guys are guys that every team needs, solid pros who do their jobs. What they aren't is Blue Chip players who make superstar plays. We're better having them than not, but they have to be complimentary guys, not the best players on the defense.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

the problem with it is twofold. Your roster will always get older trading for seasoned NFL players, and it will get more expensive as most players in a trade want a new contract and considering they're established don't come cheap. Draft picks come with cost controlled contracts which can be very useful to help keep a cap healthy and pursue free agents to fill out a roster. If the trade puts them over the top then great, but this can be dangerous as even a few injuries or decline due to age etc. can be disaster as there will be little recourse to fill holes without a steep dropoff as they'll lack capspace to sign anyone, and wont have draft picks to fill needs. It may workout but it could also unravel if a few bad breaks go their way.

Just get guys who are good at football, draft, free agency, grown in a lab with stemcells. I don't care. Just get people who can actually play.

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

This team doesn't need to copy any other franchise but they do need to stop acting like the Jaguars franchise.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Could always try hiring a competent GM and Head Coach

I'd rather this approach too.

Agreed.

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the problem with it is twofold. Your roster will always get older trading for seasoned NFL players, and it will get more expensive as most players in a trade want a new contract and considering they're established don't come cheap. Draft picks come with cost controlled contracts which can be very useful to help keep a cap healthy and pursue free agents to fill out a roster. If the trade puts them over the top then great, but this can be dangerous as even a few injuries or decline due to age etc. can be disaster as there will be little recourse to fill holes without a steep dropoff as they'll lack capspace to sign anyone, and wont have draft picks to fill needs. It may workout but it could also unravel if a few bad breaks go their way.

Just get guys who are good at football, draft, free agency, grown in a lab with stemcells. I don't care. Just get people who can actually play.

And retain as many as possible when you do get them, and stop trading them away, alienating them, or otherwise letting them walk.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Jags just need to draft better.  

And spend more wisely in free agency.  Look at some of the high-priced free agents, Rayshawn Jenkins, Roy Robertson-Harris, Shaqille Griffin, etc.  Lots of salary cap dollars and high draft picks invested, but the Jags have the worst defense in the league.  Can't rush the passer, can't cover, can't create turnovers.  

Trading picks for players won't help.  Fix the true problems.

(Emphasis added)

We had guys who could do those things.  Young guys we acquired through the draft for the most part.  We utilized four firsts and a third to get them.  Throw in 2 or 3 free agents as well.

But the team, fans, and local media talking heads found it necessary to trade or cut every single one of them.  

Every.

Single. 

One.

It's not as though they were all old and past their primes.  Every single one of those guys-save one- are making some kind of contribution to their teams.

The one guy who hasn't yet just got traded, is a year and a half into his career, has more ability than any CB still on our roster.  He still has the chance to turn his career around.  Carolina could yet reap the benefits  of a top ten pick without the first round investment. 

Every single one are on teams better than we are.

Every.

Single.

One.

Now we're wondering why we can't do these things.  

Wondering why our defense is at the bottom of the league.  

Wondering why we had to spend another first round pick on a RB, why we made it a point to sign Carlos Hyde in free agency, and why we have zero depth at RB when James Robinson went down.

Wondering why we have no leadership.

Funny how that works.

Maybe, hopefully, in the not too distant future, before we completely ruin or otherwise waste Trevor Lawrence's tenure here, we can utilize the draft effectively to add some more guys who can do the things highlighted above and more.

Maybe then, we can stop listening to those who are quick to label players as team cancers and prescribe cures that are worse than the disease.

Maybe then, we can retain some of those best players and develop a roster of talent, production, leadership, maturity and continuity instead of giving them away for pennies on the dollar-at best-of the first sign of disagreement or problems.

Maybe then, we can have a team that isn't a league wide embarrassment for years on end.

The depressing thing is so far, this current administration seems unable to draft productive guys so far.

Sigh.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I think what the rams are doing will catch up to them. However, if they squeeze a superbowl out of it, it may be worth it. Eventually almost every team has to rebuild

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It seems all of our GM's since the very early days have gone from Mediocre to Bad at drafting players.   The draft is a pure crap shoot but the jags constantly are crapping out with the picks.   The Rams over the last several years have traded almost all of their draft capital for guaranteed NFL talent.  Including Ramsey and Fowler from us.  I keep hearing the same old cliche of building through the draft but with all the draft captial we have had the past decade it's not working for us.  It is an out of the box idea but the Rams have been contenders for years now using this method.  

I for one am tired of seeing first round talent under perform here.  I would much rather trade that pick for proven NFL talent. Lets take our draft captial and do some shopping .  Just a thought..

It's an interesting model. They focus on late picks, and fill specific roles with them. So, you still have the task of hitting on the picks (and FA), but the risk is a lot lower when most of your work is being done on day 3 picks or leftover FA. Nobody else is doing that, and it's worked for them thusfar.

The Rams approach is far from novel or original.  If you are focusing on the acquiring veteran aspect of it, Washington did that a lot in the 70s and 1980s.

But I think focusing on veterans alone misses a huge part of the analysis.

The Rams, like many other successful teams dating back to the 1980s, took chances on insanely talented guys lesser teams deemed too cancerous to retain.

The last year the Rams went to the Super Bowl, they traded for Dante Fowler, whom the Jaguars traded away after he got into the training camp fight with Ngakoue.  Now, the Rams are considered one of the leading contenders in the NFC in part because they traded for Jalen Ramsey, another guy deemed too cancerous to keep.  But the Rams were on the opposite end of this dynamic decades earlier.  The Rams thought Kevin Greene and Jerome Bettis were not worth the hassle they represented and let them walk.  Both wound up in Pittsburgh, where they went on to Super bowls and Hall of Fame careers,while the Rams languished in mediocrity for years after jettisoning those guys, wastign draft capital trying to replace them.

Last year's Super Bowl champion, Tampa Bay, got key contributons from two guys deemed too much of a headache for their original teams.  Those guys were Antonio Brown and Leonard Fournette.  Both remain key contributors to the Bucs current success.  While the Steelers have sustained their success after Brown's departure, the Jaguars have fallen off after they cut Fournette.

Marshawn Lynch was jettisoned by the Buffalo Bills for numerous off field transgressions.  They felt they couldn't win with him.  But Lynch wound up in Seattle, where he wound up a key contributor to their back to  back Super Bowl seasons and is probably one of the most beloved players in Seahawks history.  Meanwhile, the Bills languished for several more seasons after allowing Lynch to walk.

The Patriots have sustained their success over the past two decades in part by taking chances on guys like Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Bryan Cox that were deemed malcontents by their original teams.

People in the Jets organization found Keyshawn Johnson to be obnoxious and divisive.  Yet Tampa added him to their roster and he added 106 receptions to Tampa's first Super bowl winning team.

In 1996, the Jaguars thought Andre Rison was too much of a problem on and off the field, but the Packers added the former first round pick after the Jaguars released him and won the Super Bowl that same year, with Rison catching a TD pass in that very game.

Charles Haley was a superior pass rusher who had made several Pro Bowls and helped the 49ers reach two Super Bowls in the late 1980s.  But the 49ers got tired of his antics and traded him to Dallas.  Dallas wound up winning three Super bowls with him as the leading pass rusher.

There are nyriad other examples I could cite but I have omitted them for time.

Why is it these so called cancers and malcontents were incompatible with their original teams winning but were able to help subsequent teams to championships?  If they were that caustic, that damaging to a team's psyche, why didn't they derail these teams from winning championships?  Why do these lesser teams who purge their rosters of these talented cancers almost never in a position to prosper after these guys leave?

The fact is, the lesser teams almost always make a mistake getting rid of talented players who have no substance abuse issues but who are otherwise deemed nuisances or cancers.  The better teams almost always exploit these teams and thier mistakes to their benefit.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I think what the rams are doing will catch up to them. However, if they squeeze a superbowl out of it, it may be worth it. Eventually almost every team has to rebuild

Let's say it will catch up to them.

Can you say they would definitively be any worse than we are now? 

It would seem a tacit and unstated premise to this whole thing is that teams that don't build like the Rams are somehow doing things in a more proper manner.

If their methods-accumulating the best possible talent- catch up to them, at least the Rams can claim at least one Super Bowl appearance and several other winning seasons to show for it.

Clearly, the Jaguars' penchant for purging the roster of the best talent hasn't worked at all for us.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Jags had to get rid of a lot of players to win the Lawrence draft. 2018-2020 is this team tanking for trevor

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I think what the rams are doing will catch up to them. However, if they squeeze a superbowl out of it, it may be worth it. Eventually almost every team has to rebuild

Let's say it will catch up to them.

Can you say they would definitively be any worse than we are now? 

No. This team is strapped for talent. I agree. Use some of these drafts picks to get some good players that can help win.

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The difference is that every one of those teams who took in a malcontent had either team or coaching leadership who kept them under control. The Jaguars have a coach who can't keep himself under control. There's also a tremendous difference in player empowerment now that hinders that ability to rein them in somewhat. I'm fine with free agency acquisitions or a draft first strategy, because our problem is already here, pacing the sidelines with a confused look on his face most of the time.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Jags had to get rid of a lot of players to win the Lawrence draft. 2018-2020 is this team tanking for trevor

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Let's say it will catch up to them.

Can you say they would definitively be any worse than we are now? 

No. This team is strapped for talent. I agree. Use some of these drafts picks to get some good players that can help win.

Not buying that.

The team went to the AFC Championship in the 2017 season.

No need to start tanking then.

Indeed, they actually extended Blake Bortles.  They didnt just exercise his 5th year option.  They extended him.  Clearly not tanking then.

2019, they signed Nick Foles to a huge deal.  They were taking another shot at a Super Bowl.

Foles got hurt the first game of the year...then Ramsey had his blow up in Houston and the Jaguars brass poured gasoline on the fire, pissing him off to the point he forced the trade.

2020?
They got rid of older and expensive guys in Dareus, Campbell and Bouye.

They botched the Ngakoue signing and pissed him off too. 

It was over after that.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

In fairness Dareus and Bouye were done and Yan got a more than generous offer but thought he was worth way more than he actually was. The Mayor should've been kept, he clearly had nore in the tank.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It’s a QB league. Just give it time.

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