(02-27-2022, 11:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Who cares how many bases we have? We have these bases, because we have built relations with our allies over the years and they feel safer with our military presence. They feel this way, because of imperialistic, corrupt, dictators like Putin, who might "get a wild hair up his butt" and decide to invade their country. Maybe if leaders like Putin lightened up and actually stopped committing human rights violations, there wouldn't have to be a NATO. 

Young men are dying, because men like Putin want total control over those that they rule. They want dissenters imprisoned and executed and they want unquestioned power. He didn't like that a country which was once part of the Soviet Union was about to align itself with the west in the name of freedom. He knew any influence he would have over Ukraine in the future would never happen if they joined NATO. It's all about power and ego. This is what happens when you allow your country to fall into the hands of a narcissistic, mob boss with deep, deep ties to the KGB. 

It TOTALLY means Putin is wrong. Even questioning this is questioning freedom and pretty much everything America was founded on. Putin is no different than Hitler.

You must have drank the kool-aid today. Russia is not the same as it has been in the past. They aren't communist anymore. Russia isn't a free country but it's definitely not what it used to be. Deep ties to the KGB, do you know who is running the US with no oversight? It's the intelligence agencies and their representatives. NATO is a globalist organization, Putin doesn't like globalist because they want what is best for them and not their individual members. NATO is socialism lite and if the globalist get their way, they will control everything. Putin sees that and is protecting Russia as he is looking out for Russian interests. It's the same thing every leader should do.

You may not agree with it but it makes sense from their viewpoint. So far Putin has stuck to what they have said about not attacking the people and only wanting to rid the country of the nazis and globalist. Who knows if that will hold or not. You also ignore all the atrocities that the Russian people in Ukraine have faced at the hands of the neo-nazis. Also all the corruption that continues to hurt the people. It started decades ago but continues even today with their false freedom.

This isn't really Russia vs Ukraine, it's globalist vs individualists.

That doesn't mean Putin won't cross the line and try to occupy and kill citizens. They aren't right now and based on the propaganda numbers put out from Ukraine, they haven't lost many troops and they have killed a bunch of Russian troops. If Putin wanted to he could bomb everything but so far he appears to trying to kill as little as possible.

It's the same thing that the US has done to other countries when we haven't agreed with their leaders.

(02-27-2022, 02:09 PM)mikesez Wrote: NATO's history is not perfect. Turkey and Greece were dictatorships when we let them in. But they're democracies now, and want to continue in NATO. West Germany was already occupied by us when they gave us "permission" to continue, but, again, they've been democratic for decades and still want to stay in. When Poland and the Baltic states had their first free and fair elections, they immediately asked to join NATO.
In areas that the Russian military has occupied, there have never been democratic elections or even any freedom to speak against the Russian occupation. Same story, whether we're talking about Tsars or communists or kleptocrats.
Russia are for sure the villains in this story, it's not even close.

While Russia has persecuted their people, you are just trading one dictator for a collective dictatorship. NATO is the globalist way to control the world. Neither of them are right and Russia has a terrible history. As long as Russia doesn't move to an open war and just tries to remove the nazi groups and corrupt leaders, then they could be viewed as right in this situation. I don't like Russia persecuting their people or occupying other countries but so far this situation isn't that yet.

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