(05-02-2022, 05:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:

(05-02-2022, 01:00 AM)p_rushing Wrote: Putin has been offering to get them out for over a week, at least publicly. There has been 1 side not allowing the civilians to leave and it wasn't Russia. There are lots of videos from the civilians talking about being forced to stay there and used as shields. Now it could be PR with Russia saying release a video or we kill you but it doesn't appear to be that.

There have been some military caught trying to leave as civilians in the past week or 2. Then you have Ukrainian leadership saying they will fight to the last man.

The issue is the people are in the tunnels with Azov and the mercenaries. Russia stopped the cleanup they were doing and didn't enter the tunnels. That would be hard to fight in the tunnels and both sides would lose people. Russia could gas them out but they don't appear to want to harm any civilians there. The ones who have surrendered have talked about the conditions and the threat to anyone leaving being shot in the back. They are basically out of supplies but for whatever reason the fighters still are keeping civilians there and are not surrendering.

PR aside, Russia isn't advancing and is holding positions to stop any military from escaping. If everyone were to surrender, that would allow the civilians to get help. Otherwise it is going to be a while until it's safe to enter the tunnels. You don't know what has been rigged up so no one would be safe from either side.

It goes back to what's so important about the tunnels. It sounds more and more likely that NATO countries are there, foreign mercenaries have been part of the surrendered and deaths. Rumors of US general being there, crazy stuff happening in the tunnels, etc. Who knows what is true but it appears something valuable is there as Ukraine doesn't want to give them up and Russia doesn't want to destroy them.

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You post Russian propaganda.  Do you really believe that stuff?

You believe anything coming out of western media and MSM?

I only believe things that can be backed up by facts or all info available points to it being true. Whether you want to believe it or not, MSM is lying and they are all helping Ukraine with PR. Look at the ghost crap that was proven to be a recording of a game within 24 hours. They finally admit it and they still say it is ok because it is giving hope.

You only see Russia as the bad guys because of their history and we have all been told to hate Putin. You see all the terrible Ukraine stuff forgotten or covered up. Ukraine was were most of the terrible people were from at the end of Stalin. They have continued their evils and corruption.

There are rumors that Ukraine was going to attack Donbass and Russia acted first. No way to back those up yet. They did build troop levels up in the area and it's why the main army is now stuck there. There are some facts coming out aboit stuff in congress being written in January though. So seems like they knew stuff was going to happen, just can't prove which way.

The situation is neither side is good or should be supported. Russia is purging the nazis, so that is great. The civilians on both sides are hurting.

Ukraine PR has given nothing tangible and only trying to encourage people and say they won't be giving up. There is nothing to believe but feelings from the Ukraine side.

We don't know what happens behind closed doors but we do know that in public Russia keeps making strides to end it and help get civilians out. Ukraine is not looking for peace, they keep trying to get the world in a war.

So either we end up in a war or Ukraine surrenders eventually. The war option is worse for everyone but those corrupt people and Warhawks. What's going to happen when Russia cuts off oil and natural gas supply to Europe? Good luck with that.

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