(07-04-2022, 08:15 AM)Sneakers Wrote:

(07-03-2022, 05:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Okay, HB, I promise I won't pound this thing into the ground, but I think there are some legitimate questions about LIV that are worthy of discussion.

1) Sustainability.  Is there a business plan that would make this thing self-funding?  If Saudi Arabia decides they've lost enough money and LIV is not giving them what they want, is there any business plan that would allow LIV to survive?

2) How do they get players?  Right now, they leech them off the PGA and DP tours.  In contrast, the PGA Tour has a feeder league- the Korn Ferry tour.  So the PGA Tour has a flow of new players.  And the PGA Tour has other ways a player can qualify for a tournament.  A player can force his way onto the PGA Tour by being a great player.  He doesn't have to wait for Greg Norman to invite him.  

3) At what point does LIV start cutting players?  What happens when the field is full, and there's another big name that wants to join?  Phil finished 42nd in Portland out of 48 players.  Would they ever cut Phil loose if a better player wanted to join?  The PGA Tour is a meritocracy.  There are rules, and you make it or you don't.  No favoritism.  So, if you look at #2 and #3, you see younger, better players pushing the older players out on the PGA Tour.  Do fans want to see weekly invitational tournaments when every player is guaranteed to earn money? 

4) What happens when all these big name players have fulfilled their 3-year obligations?  Are they going to offer DJ another $100 million to stay?  What do they do if, when his enlistment is up, DJ says, I'd like to go back to the PGA Tour?  Does he take his $150 million and petition for re-admission to the PGA Tour?

5) 3-rounds, with shotgun start.  If an average round in a professional tournament is 5 hours max, that's 15 hours of LIV golf.  And only 8 tournaments.  A PGA tournament is 4 rounds, and the rounds last all day, because there are more players, and they usually all tee off on the first hole.  That's a lot more advertising space than LIV has.  More ads = more money.  This goes directly to the question of sustainability. 

6) The product itself.  "Golf, only louder" is their slogan.  Do we need louder golf?  And with the shotgun starts, do we want to see the winner end his round and win on the 15th hole?  Where are the fans when the winner ends his round?  In a PGA tournament, the fans are gathered up from previous holes and there's a huge crowd on the 18th hole at the end of the tournament.  Look at the Canadian Open this year, when the entire crowd was around the 18th green when Rory McIlroy finished.  That adds to the TV drama.

7) Official World Golf Rankings.  If LIV doesn't get a lot more strong players, then because of the weak fields that play their tournaments, their players will start sinking in the OWGR.  The OWGR is how players qualify for major championships without having to go through qualifying tournaments.  

Right now, LIV is a parasite that feeds off of Saudi Arabia and poaches players from other tours.  Is that really sustainable?  

I know this post is dripping with negativity, but these are legitimate questions.

I haven't watched any LIV golf yet, but that's mostly because of family vacation, other events, etc.  Haven't watched much PGA either during the same timeframe, so........first thoughts.

1)  The Saudi's are floating in money.  The regular business rules of sustainability don't really apply, and the LIV doesn't need to make money.  It could (theoretically) continue indefinitely.

2)  Most of the players are going to follow the money (just like free agents in any other sport).

3)  Good question.  Maybe they already have a plan for an internal rating system, probably based on media draw, rather than scoring/finishes. 

4)   If a guy has already made 100M, he doesn't need to play anywhere, but as mentioned in #1, they can write checks forever if they want to.  Will the PGA be the first to blink?

5)  Same as # 1, they don't have to make money.  Same as #6, a significant portion of PGA airtime is a weak product.

6)  The 15th hole will actually be the 18th in that player's round, so I don't see this as a factor.  Spectators will follow the leader, wherever he is on the course, just like they do now.  The shotgun start formats provides better commercial airtime from the beginning of the round, with players over the entire course.  I can see the possibility for much greater drama at the end, with leaders on different holes, rather than a score in the clubhouse.

7)  Is the OWGR the LIV's problem?  

All good questions.  I'm sure the PGA is more than a little nervous because this is uncharted territory.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Thanks for addressing all of these. I just didn't have the time yesterday to sit and write out a lengthy response. 

1) I agree the Saudis have unlimited cash but there is also the real possibility that other sponsors may come on board if they see LIV has a decent chance of becoming successful. From all signs after the first two events, that seems like a real possibility. All tickets for the last event in Miami are already sold out, as were the tickets in Portland. There was a very sizable crowd there. 

2) This last event included the 2nd highest rated amateur, Eugenio Chacarra. That will attract more young players looking for a chance to make money, which is what the PGA is all about. 

3) I don't know the answer to that question. I've read nothing which addresses it but I'm sure plans have been laid out for such an occurrence. 

4) Between the signing bonus and the prize money they earn, they won't need to play golf any longer to live very comfortably. The PGA would be foolish to shut out big names who want to play. This will all play out in the courts. 

5) The Masters says, "advertisers?" I'm being facetious. With only 8 events per year they won't need to make as much advertising dollars as the PGA. Between the Saudis and any other sponsors which come onboard, prize money should be covered. 

6) It's just a slogan. The crowds are no rowdier than they are at PGA events. As Sneakers said, the crowd will follow the leaders and the final hole in Portland had the gallery follow the leaders up the green and surround it for the final putt. 

7) The OWGR and the PGA's stance are something that will be hammered out in the courts in the months to come. This isn't over yet. 
Btw, Greg Norman came up with the idea of a World Golf Tour back in the 90s. Tim Finchem, the PGA commissioner then, copied the idea to keep PGA players from going over. They are now called WGC events. Lo and behold, the PGA has once again copied Norman's idea to keep PGA players from going over by announcing planned year end events with no cuts and larger purses. Why are they doing this? Because they know PGA players want to participate in this format. DP Tour management even went so far as to accelerate their recent agreement with the PGA because DP Tour players were voicing their preference to join up with LIV. 

The PGA purists need to grasp the fact that the LIV doesn't want to replace the PGA. It's only a supplement. Only a fool would actually believe the top players in the PGA right now wouldn't like to play in the LIV. They cite competition and history and blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is it ALWAYS about money. The reason you don't see more come over is because of the source of LIV money, even though FedEx has spent hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade their facilities in Saudi Arabia but you don't hear about that. 

Jay Monahan has played his hand. The lawyers and judges will be deciding things from here on out.

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