(09-14-2022, 01:51 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(09-13-2022, 07:45 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: I was talking about the Ukrainian counteroffensive.  I assumed that's what he was talking about.  The Ukrainian counteroffensive has not come at a terrible cost for Ukrainians.  

He said "by all accounts this was a win for the Ukrainians but at a terrible cost." I didn't think he was talking about the entire war because he use the word "was" and the war is continuing.  And I thought he was responding to my remark about the counteroffensive.  

Of course this entire war has come at a terrible cost for Ukrainians.  

I would add, if he was talking about the entire war when he said "this was a win for the Ukrainians," then I think he's being very premature.   The war is not over.

At some point, you're going to have to acknowledge you're consuming propaganda. I know, I know... Russia has propaganda, too. Doesn't mean you're not consuming it. 

Up until that counter offensive, the Ukrainians have been getting beat thoroughly, with as many as 250,000 casualties. I'm pretty sure it was you and your ilk talking about how they were "winning" the war after week one. Ukraine played their hand well and gained ground, but they also had 12,000 casualties. That's a heavy loss considering Russia didn't even have their reinforcements there. Not only that, NATO basically funded and planned this counteroffensive, which is a VERY dangerous game we're playing. The minute Russia feels like it's fighting the West in its entirety, there is no longer any benefit to restraint. 

China, Russia, Iran would make a formidable opponent, and you're crazy if they aren't in cahoots. There are a growing number of countries that are standing up to Western hegemony, and I don't think we, as Americans, really understand how warped our view of reality has become.