Dude. Use your brain. I linked an article that gave you firsthand accounts FROM the Ukrainians involved in the southern part of that offensive, in which THEY describe the absolute shellacking they took from the Russians. THEY said it was devastating. THEY said they lost 5 men for every Russian they killed. Ukraine put large units of untrained soldiers on the front lines. Russia bombed them mercilessly. They were a decoy, and they did their job. Whether it was 8000 casualties or 12,000, it doesn't matter. IT WAS A TERRIBLE COST. War is brutal, man. 

Let's go back to my original sentence: By all accounts, this was a win for Ukraine, but at a terrible cost.

So, I stated clearly that this was a win for Ukraine BY ALL ACCOUNTS. I didn't mince words. They won that battle. That thing tends to happen in war. Nothing in that post was pro-Russia. I was just trying to temper the jubilee on this forum that comes when our media gives us a cherry-picked accounting of events that makes it seem one sided when it wasn't. It cost Ukraine a lot to win that battle. I would LOVE to give you the actual numbers, but we don't have them. Neither Ukrainian officials nor the western media even attempted to give us a true account (for the most part). 

Now, let's look at your response: By all accounts, there hasn't been any terrible cost.  Except for the Russians.

Why would you argue this didn't cost the Ukrainians anything? Why would you think this only cost the Russians? Because you were uninformed. Period. That's my point, dude. 

I try to spend time on both sides of this story, and the more I do, the easier it is for me to see that our media is full of [BLEEP]. You should try it some time. 

I don't believe everything Russia says, but they also aren't lying about EVERYTHING. Was it 12k? I don't know for certain. I could have made that point clearer, but I was busy doing your research for you, then trying to educate you. Not only that, then I have to waste my time explaining why you only are getting part of the story. Not only that, but I also have to use only resources that are lying to you as proof of them lying to you, which is a huge time sink. Not only that, then I have to defend a tangent after I prove a terrible cost, because you want to quibble over numbers. 

Great, you got me. I am SO easily manipulated by Russian propaganda. Lol. Geez, Marty.

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