(12-15-2022, 01:19 AM)mikesez Wrote: I don't think any elite person anywhere in the US or the confederacy was better off in 1865 than they were in 1861.  Such an incredible loss of able bodied workers and machinery on both sides.

It was about slavery from the beginning.  The South judged (correctly) that they needed new slave states in the Senate or else it would be a matter of time before the Feds would vote to eliminate slavery, against the will of the Southern states.  

The fact that Lincoln was elected without the consent of a single Southern state demonstrated that Southern politicians had lost their ability to veto Federal policy, and Lincoln's promise to stop the expansion of slavery meant they would not get their veto back.

It's true that most southerners did not own slaves but it's also true that most people on both sides of the conflict had extremely racist attitudes.  "You should pay your labor" "OK I can't afford that, I'll send them North to work for you and you can pay them" "no we don't want black people here." Etc.  Some of us are less racially enlightened than others, but unless you're Black, or have William Lloyd Garrison in your family tree, you would probably be deeply, deeply disappointed in how racist your Civil War era ancestors were if you met them.

Just FYI the narrative that the owner doesn't care if the hired labor gets sick, in general that is not true.  It's usually hard to replace workers when a trained worker get sick.  The idea that ownership thinks all labor is replaceable and should be paid as little as possible is Marxist language. 

The idea that the workers could and should band together against the elites is also Marxism.  The American revolution included owners of land and capital, elites, on both sides.  It was not anti-elite.  The Shays rebellion was the American rebellion of labor vs elites.  And it failed.

Go do some research on it. Slavery was too expensive and there were other advancements and cheaper labor that made the need for slaves less and shrinking. While yes the issue of stopping slavery was part of the events leading up to it, it was solely about states rights and stopping the growing power of the federal government. Lincoln freed the slaves as part of a last ditch effort to try and turn the tide of the war. It worked to keep unite the north and helped them win.

Yes there were racist people on both sides and unfortunately it was accepted practice and it is very hard for people to go against society.

Look at what happened to workers afterwards and who benefited. There were plenty of people who benefitted from rebuilding but it wasn't the workers.

As for the American revolution, there were many wealthy people who died penniless or even gave their lives for America. They were all part of the people fighting against the crown and their control. They did not have the power, they were somewhat free, but they were not the elites. Those were the ones who sided with the crown to rule over them.

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