(06-14-2023, 05:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Why did he lie about having them?  Why didn't he just say, "those are mine."   Why did he say (and they have this on tape) "I could have declassified them but I didn't."  

Also, if the facts of the case are correct, that he kept top-secret documents related to a plan of attack on another country and our plan of defense if we are attacked, and kept those documents in his bathroom at Mar-A-Lago, and then casually showed those documents to other people, do you really think he should be President again after he did such an irresponsible thing?  

As for your reference to "The Clinton Sock Drawer Case," that case was about recordings Bill Clinton made with an interviewer when he was President.  Not the same thing as taking home classified documents.  And if you are saying anything he decides to take home is his, and no longer belongs to the government, that would mean any President can take home any top-secret document related to our national security and show them to anyone he wants.

Even if he wants to make the case that anything he takes home is automatically his, he defied a subpoena and lied to law enforcement, and that is obstruction of justice, which might be the strongest part of the case against him.  He is also accused of instructing an employee to hide the documents and lie about them, and that is conspiracy.

Saying on tape he didn't declassify something doesn't mean what you think it means.

1st we need to hear the tape to confirm what was said, not a leak.
2nd - there are different rules. Trump can share any docs that he has, frankly he can share anything he knows about. That information would remain classified for others.

So Trump could be lying about that, not understand the rules that it was already declassified, or frankly saying anything and it doesn't matter.

The docs he has automatically became personal property, are unclassified copies of currently classified docs.

Clinton did the same thing, all presidents have. Clinton disclosed classified information on his tapes but was able to keep them and keep NARA from getting them.

People seem to not understand the president is the sole person with the power to classify information. Article 2 gives them the power and nothing else congress or an agency has done can override that power. You can state whatever act you want, EO, etc but the president doesn't have to obey any of them.

Even a national security doc could be shared and maintained by a president at their will. They have the authority to do it. The past presidents haven't done that but it is to ensure that an agency or branch of government can't hide their crimes by classifying information and then saying you can't share it. No president has shared the CIA files on JFK because the agency has become too powerful.

Everyone but the president has to follow classification laws.

(06-14-2023, 06:52 AM)EricC85 Wrote: The idea or theory that a president can declassify documents just by taking them or thinking about it has never been tested in court. Every other president had an EO dictating the process for classified documents under their term. So either Trump was so ignorant that he didn't know how to handle too secret information, or he was so careless he didn't care about too secret information, which one makes you more comfortable?

Secondly the atomic energy act excludes nuclear information from sweeping presidential authority and clearly dictates classification of any nuclear information is not subject to presidential exclusivity. So if it is true he had nuclear information he is undeniably wrong and in violation.

Third I have yet to hear any justification as to why he had any of this at Mar-a-lago. For what purpose does he need any of it? And why did he lie to the grand jury about what he had? These two questions have nothing to do with the legality of it but they make me curious about the intent.

The EO is for others, it's done so forms can be created to automatically apply to docs. It doesn't define rules for the president though.

The atomic energy act doesn't keep the president from declassifying that information. It sets rules in place for people to follow but again the president is not restricted by those rules. While the rules may be followed by presidents, don't misunderstand that to mean they have to.

Trump took the copies of the docs for some reason. I don't know if it was because he wanted copies of things for posterity, wanted copies of the FBI crimes, or just wanted to screw with the FBI and DOJ. It doesn't matter what the reason is though.

The lying part, not giving the docs up, etc need to be fined in clear terms with the exact wording used.

If they ask for classified docs back, then no as there aren't any. If they ask for docs with classified markings back, then no these are personal property per NARA and precedent in court. If you move docs or refuse to give them back, you have no expectations to do so. Any search is illegal.


Trump tried to work with them but didn't even have to do that. It comes do to the FBI wanting the docs back for some reason. Either they are afraid of the information in them or they are just trying to use it to go after Trump.

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