https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city...cebook.com

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted on charges of "Paying Hush Money" prior to his Presidential Candidacy. Stormy threatened to spill the beans so he paid her to go away just like he paid Republican Candidates to go away. This is going to be truly interesting. How far will this go or will Trump pay his way out of this scenario as well?

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

Seems fellow by the name of Bill CLinton did the exact same thing, only difference, he's a DemocRAT so..... No one really cared to persecute him on some trumped up BS. This Bragg idiot is only trying to score polital points for himself, he's only going to make himself the fool (notice I didn't say "Look Like") This is just a smear campaign agaist someone they know they can't defeat because the DemocRATS are void of ideas that resonate with a majority of the American public. That's why they try to do everything in their power against election reform (Such as Voter ID) so they can still cheat, and STEAL elections..........

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You know trouble is right around the corner when your best friend tells you to hold his beer!!

https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city...cebook.com

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted on charges of "Paying Hush Money" prior to his Presidential Candidacy. Stormy threatened to spill the beans so he paid her to go away just like he paid Republican Candidates to go away. This is going to be truly interesting. How far will this go or will Trump pay his way out of this scenario as well?

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

I'd like to know how the indictment reads and what specific charges they are making. The indictment is sealed at this point. As far as I know, paying hush money isn't a crime in and of itself unless it's funded in a way that's fraudulent or to keep someone quiet about another crime or something similar. Speculation is that he funded the payments from campaign contributions.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Dude, it's a crime that could go either way... think about it. If he used his campaign funds to pay for it, they would say he used campaign funds to pay for something personal. However, since he didn't, they are saying he should have used campaign funds, since he was trying to keep it quiet from the public. This is just political persecution, and everyone knows it. Honestly, my take on the matter is that they are doing this to keep DeSantis from running. Republicans are going to rally behind Trump to make a point. Then they can utilize the full power of the establishment to keep him from winning again. All this talk about handing Trump the Whitehouse is hilarious to me.

Now, maybe they have something else on him. It's almost impossible for a wealthy person not to be committing a crime somehow. Either way, this is selective enforcement of the law. I am good with it. Lock him up if he broke the law, but lock all of them up. Joe Biden has done and is doing much worse. Hillary lied to the FBI about the whole Russia thing to slander Trump. They are all criminals to the American people. If we're going to do this, let's go gonzo. We won't, though, and it's because the moderates of the world are [BLEEP], who are led around by the appeal of authority fallacy.

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I want to see what they're charging him with. So far, from what I have read, it seems like a very small crime, not worthy of all this brouhaha. Slap on the wrist, pay a fine type of thing. But, again, we haven't seen the charges or the evidence.

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Dude, it's a crime that could go either way... think about it. If he used his campaign funds to pay for it, they would say he used campaign funds to pay for something personal. However, since he didn't, they are saying he should have used campaign funds, since he was trying to keep it quiet from the public. This is just political persecution, and everyone knows it. Honestly, my take on the matter is that they are doing this to keep DeSantis from running. Republicans are going to rally behind Trump to make a point. Then they can utilize the full power of the establishment to keep him from winning again. All this talk about handing Trump the Whitehouse is hilarious to me.

Now, maybe they have something else on him. It's almost impossible for a wealthy person not to be committing a crime somehow. Either way, this is selective enforcement of the law. I am good with it. Lock him up if he broke the law, but lock all of them up. Joe Biden has done and is doing much worse. Hillary lied to the FBI about the whole Russia thing to slander Trump. They are all criminals to the American people. If we're going to do this, let's go gonzo. We won't, though, and it's because the moderates of the world are [BLEEP], who are led around by the appeal of authority fallacy.

I have no doubt this is an attempt to anger the right in order to influence the Republican primary. In essence, they’re leveraging the right’s indignation in order to undermine themselves. It’s brilliant strategy, really. 

However, this scorched earth policy of the end justifying the means is setting a dangerous precedent. Manipulation of the legal system for political purposes will only generate endless retribution as legal and bureaucratic institutions become willing political pawns. We’ve seen it happen to the fourth estate and this is the natural progression. The rule of law which makes this country a beacon for the world is being eroded in front of our very eyes. This will have consequences far beyond this election cycle. You can count on that.

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Seems  fellow by the name of Bill CLinton did the exact same thing, only difference, he's a DemocRAT so..... No one really cared to persecute him on some trumped up BS. This Bragg idiot is only trying to score polital points for himself, he's only going to make himself the fool (notice I didn't say "Look Like") This is just a smear campaign agaist someone they know they can't defeat because the DemocRATS are void of ideas that resonate with a majority of the American public. That's why they try to do everything in their power against election reform (Such as Voter ID) so they can still cheat, and STEAL elections..........

Clinton was sued and settled the lawsuit.  Jones gave depositions and forced Clinton to do the same.  When you get judges involved before the money changes hands, the legal implications are very different.  Also it was 1998 and Clinton couldn't run again, so no campaign laws were in play.

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Dude, it's a crime that could go either way... think about it. If he used his campaign funds to pay for it, they would say he used campaign funds to pay for something personal. However, since he didn't, they are saying he should have used campaign funds, since he was trying to keep it quiet from the public. This is just political persecution, and everyone knows it. Honestly, my take on the matter is that they are doing this to keep DeSantis from running. Republicans are going to rally behind Trump to make a point. Then they can utilize the full power of the establishment to keep him from winning again. All this talk about handing Trump the Whitehouse is hilarious to me.

Now, maybe they have something else on him. It's almost impossible for a wealthy person not to be committing a crime somehow. Either way, this is selective enforcement of the law. I am good with it. Lock him up if he broke the law, but lock all of them up. Joe Biden has done and is doing much worse. Hillary lied to the FBI about the whole Russia thing to slander Trump. They are all criminals to the American people. If we're going to do this, let's go gonzo. We won't, though, and it's because the moderates of the world are [BLEEP], who are led around by the appeal of authority fallacy.

I have no doubt this is an attempt to anger the right in order to influence the Republican primary. In essence, they’re leveraging the right’s indignation in order to undermine themselves. It’s brilliant strategy, really. 

However, this scorched earth policy of the end justifying the means is setting a dangerous precedent. Manipulation of the legal system for political purposes will only generate endless retribution as legal and bureaucratic institutions become willing political pawns. We’ve seen it happen to the fourth estate and this is the natural progression. The rule of law which makes this country a beacon for the world is being eroded in front of our very eyes. This will have consequences far beyond this election cycle. You can count on that.

I don't see that angle at all.  I don't think Alvin Bragg and Joe Biden work together.  If that type of conspiracy is possible, why didn't Cyrus Vance do it?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Seems  fellow by the name of Bill CLinton did the exact same thing, only difference, he's a DemocRAT so..... No one really cared to persecute him on some trumped up BS. This Bragg idiot is only trying to score polital points for himself, he's only going to make himself the fool (notice I didn't say "Look Like") This is just a smear campaign agaist someone they know they can't defeat because the DemocRATS are void of ideas that resonate with a majority of the American public. That's why they try to do everything in their power against election reform (Such as Voter ID) so they can still cheat, and STEAL elections..........

Clinton was sued and settled the lawsuit.  Jones gave depositions and forced Clinton to do the same.  When you get judges involved before the money changes hands, the legal implications are very different.  Also it was 1998 and Clinton couldn't run again, so no campaign laws were in play.

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I have no doubt this is an attempt to anger the right in order to influence the Republican primary. In essence, they’re leveraging the right’s indignation in order to undermine themselves. It’s brilliant strategy, really. 

However, this scorched earth policy of the end justifying the means is setting a dangerous precedent. Manipulation of the legal system for political purposes will only generate endless retribution as legal and bureaucratic institutions become willing political pawns. We’ve seen it happen to the fourth estate and this is the natural progression. The rule of law which makes this country a beacon for the world is being eroded in front of our very eyes. This will have consequences far beyond this election cycle. You can count on that.

I don't see that angle at all.  I don't think Alvin Bragg and Joe Biden work together.  If that type of conspiracy is possible, why didn't Cyrus Vance do it?

Thanks, Mike.

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Uh, I don't know Mikey... why did every single Democratic candidate drop out of the race at the same time when it was Bernie vs. Biden? Just a coincidence? You are so willfully obtuse at times.

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https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city...cebook.com

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted on charges of "Paying Hush Money" prior to his Presidential Candidacy. Stormy threatened to spill the beans so he paid her to go away just like he paid Republican Candidates to go away. This is going to be truly interesting. How far will this go or will Trump pay his way out of this scenario as well?

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

I'd like to know how the indictment reads and what specific charges they are making. The indictment is sealed at this point. As far as I know, paying hush money isn't a crime in and of itself unless it's funded in a way that's fraudulent or to keep someone quiet about another crime or something similar. Speculation is that he funded the payments from campaign contributions.

Yes it is sealed and where it became an crime pertains to The Presidency as in the Candidacy to which I mentioned. Also in this article it states that Trump's Lawyer paid off Storm and Trump repaid his lawyer in effect to avoid taxation. Whether or not, if this materializes says the least.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

You do know that everything they are trying to bust him on (that we know of) is a misdemeanor and is already past the statute of limitations. However, if you connect it to a campaign violation, it becomes a felony. This is why this is political persecution. This is why they manufactured this Stormy Daniels bit, then told all the idiots that it was a super special crime. People are so [BLEEP] stupid sometimes. If anyone here wants Trump charged based on what we know so far, you fall into that category.

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You do know that everything they are trying to bust him on (that we know of) is a misdemeanor and is already past the statute of limitations. However, if you connect it to a campaign violation, it becomes a felony. This is why this is political persecution. This is why they manufactured this Stormy Daniels bit, then told all the idiots that it was a super special crime. People are so [BLEEP] stupid sometimes. If anyone here wants Trump charged based on what we know so far, you fall into that category.

A secret cabal of conspirators created a payment from Trump to tabloids and or porn stars?

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Uh, I don't know Mikey... why did every single Democratic candidate drop out of the race at the same time when it was Bernie vs. Biden? Just a coincidence? You are so willfully obtuse at times.

They dropped out because their popular vote totals showed that they couldn't win.  Biden and Bernie were scoring in the 40s and up while Warren and Bloomberg couldn't break 20%.

Are you saying the individual voters who picked Biden were in some kind of conspiracy?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

No, you dolt. The DA is manufacturing these charges, and he's doing it at the behest of high ranking democrats who DEFINITELY discuss these kinds of things. [BLEEP] is wrong with you? Why do you make such inane arguments. You think there's no party involvement in this?

So, just so we're clear, you think with 4 states down, and Biden only winning one of the 4, the overwhelming delegates of South Carolina, that EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE couldn't win. Biden only won SC. Then we know for a fact the party conspired to keep Sanders from winning the primary. You are so easily duped it baffles me. You see what you want to see. It makes you blind.

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https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03/30/...tment-news

Just so that we are clear on this indicement, it seems that Trumpsters has blinders on. This situation is Exactly what It Is. No need to bring others into the frey. No need to justify the unjustifiable. No need to cover up the truth. There's no need to accuse the Inditees for doing their jobs. No Need. It is what it is.

I'll Wait.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

Care to post the contents of that entirely unbiased article? You know... for those of us who don't want to pay to have others tell us how to think.

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Care to post the contents of that entirely unbiased article? You know... for those of us who don't want to pay to have others tell us how to think.

I think this is the most relevant part of it.  I underlined one key point:  

While the specific charges in the Manhattan case against the former president remain unknown, Mr. Bragg’s case centers on a $130,000 hush-money payment to Ms. Daniels.

Mr. Trump’s longtime fixer, Michael D. Cohen, made the payment in the final days of the 2016 campaign. Mr. Trump later reimbursed him, signing monthly checks while serving as president.
Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors appear to have zeroed in on the way Mr. Trump and his family business, the Trump Organization, handled the reimbursement to Mr. Cohen. In internal documents, Trump Organization employees falsely recorded the repayments as legal expenses, and the company invented a bogus retainer agreement with Mr. Cohen to justify them.
Mr. Cohen, who broke with Mr. Trump in 2018 and later testified before Congress as well as the grand jury that indicted Mr. Trump, has said that the former president knew about the phony legal expenses and retainer agreement.
In New York, it can be a crime to falsify business records, and Mr. Bragg’s office is likely to build the case around that charge, according to people with knowledge of the matter and outside legal experts.
But to charge falsifying business records as a felony, rather than a misdemeanor, Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors must show that Mr. Trump’s “intent to defraud” included an effort to commit or conceal a second crime.
That second crime could be a violation of election law. Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors might argue that the payment to Ms. Daniels represented an illicit contribution to Mr. Trump’s campaign: The money silenced Ms. Daniels, aiding his candidacy at a crucial time.

=====
Personally, in my opinion, if the above is accurate, it still seems like a stretch to move this up from a misdemeanor to a felony.  It reminds me of the way law enforcement goes after known gangsters.   
The article continues:
======

If Mr. Trump were ultimately convicted, he would face a maximum sentence of four years, though prison time would not be mandatory.

Yet a conviction is not a sure thing, and Mr. Bragg’s case might apply a legal theory that has yet to be evaluated by judges. A New York Times review of relevant cases and interviews with election law experts strongly suggest that New York State prosecutors have never before filed an election law case involving a federal campaign.

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Care to post the contents of that entirely unbiased article? You know... for those of us who don't want to pay to have others tell us how to think.

I think this is the most relevant part of it.  I underlined one key point:  

While the specific charges in the Manhattan case against the former president remain unknown, Mr. Bragg’s case centers on a $130,000 hush-money payment to Ms. Daniels.

Mr. Trump’s longtime fixer, Michael D. Cohen, made the payment in the final days of the 2016 campaign. Mr. Trump later reimbursed him, signing monthly checks while serving as president.
Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors appear to have zeroed in on the way Mr. Trump and his family business, the Trump Organization, handled the reimbursement to Mr. Cohen. In internal documents, Trump Organization employees falsely recorded the repayments as legal expenses, and the company invented a bogus retainer agreement with Mr. Cohen to justify them.
Mr. Cohen, who broke with Mr. Trump in 2018 and later testified before Congress as well as the grand jury that indicted Mr. Trump, has said that the former president knew about the phony legal expenses and retainer agreement.
In New York, it can be a crime to falsify business records, and Mr. Bragg’s office is likely to build the case around that charge, according to people with knowledge of the matter and outside legal experts.
But to charge falsifying business records as a felony, rather than a misdemeanor, Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors must show that Mr. Trump’s “intent to defraud” included an effort to commit or conceal a second crime.
That second crime could be a violation of election law. Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors might argue that the payment to Ms. Daniels represented an illicit contribution to Mr. Trump’s campaign: The money silenced Ms. Daniels, aiding his candidacy at a crucial time.

Personally, in my opinion, if the above is accurate, it still seems like a stretch to move this up from a misdemeanor to a felony.  It reminds me of the way law enforcement goes after known gangsters.   

For anyone with a shred of impartiality, it’s obvious this is a witch hunt. I’m not defending Trump, if the guy broke the law then prosecute him as anyone else would be. But from everything that has been divulged to the public so far, it’s a legalistic reach, and we all know why.

As I said, this is setting a bad precedent that will have effects and ramifications beyond this election.

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So we have a sealed indictment from a biased DA put before a prejudiced Grand Jury. What's next, a secret trial with an anonymous jury and a predetermined verdict with no appeal rights? We're becoming every more Soviet as this thing progresses.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Care to post the contents of that entirely unbiased article? You know... for those of us who don't want to pay to have others tell us how to think.

I think this is the most relevant part of it.  I underlined one key point:  

While the specific charges in the Manhattan case against the former president remain unknown, Mr. Bragg’s case centers on a $130,000 hush-money payment to Ms. Daniels.

Mr. Trump’s longtime fixer, Michael D. Cohen, made the payment in the final days of the 2016 campaign. Mr. Trump later reimbursed him, signing monthly checks while serving as president.
Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors appear to have zeroed in on the way Mr. Trump and his family business, the Trump Organization, handled the reimbursement to Mr. Cohen. In internal documents, Trump Organization employees falsely recorded the repayments as legal expenses, and the company invented a bogus retainer agreement with Mr. Cohen to justify them.
Mr. Cohen, who broke with Mr. Trump in 2018 and later testified before Congress as well as the grand jury that indicted Mr. Trump, has said that the former president knew about the phony legal expenses and retainer agreement.
In New York, it can be a crime to falsify business records, and Mr. Bragg’s office is likely to build the case around that charge, according to people with knowledge of the matter and outside legal experts.
But to charge falsifying business records as a felony, rather than a misdemeanor, Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors must show that Mr. Trump’s “intent to defraud” included an effort to commit or conceal a second crime.
That second crime could be a violation of election law. Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors might argue that the payment to Ms. Daniels represented an illicit contribution to Mr. Trump’s campaign: The money silenced Ms. Daniels, aiding his candidacy at a crucial time.

Personally, in my opinion, if the above is accurate, it still seems like a stretch to move this up from a misdemeanor to a felony.  It reminds me of the way law enforcement goes after known gangsters.   

The misdemeanor charge is probably a slam dunk.  Trump's lawyers might argue that others who are not running for office make these types of payments to protect their reputations frequently.  They might even demonstrate that Trump made this type of payment to other people at other times before he became a candidate for office.  It makes sense that the law would raise the stakes when someone becomes a candidate for public office rather than a reality TV star.  But it might come down to a judgement call for 12 jurors.  How comfortable are the 12 jurors with raising the stakes that way? Depends how the judge sets up the arguments and instructions to the jury.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Care to post the contents of that entirely unbiased article? You know... for those of us who don't want to pay to have others tell us how to think.

I think this is the most relevant part of it.  I underlined one key point:  

While the specific charges in the Manhattan case against the former president remain unknown, Mr. Bragg’s case centers on a $130,000 hush-money payment to Ms. Daniels.

Mr. Trump’s longtime fixer, Michael D. Cohen, made the payment in the final days of the 2016 campaign. Mr. Trump later reimbursed him, signing monthly checks while serving as president.
Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors appear to have zeroed in on the way Mr. Trump and his family business, the Trump Organization, handled the reimbursement to Mr. Cohen. In internal documents, Trump Organization employees falsely recorded the repayments as legal expenses, and the company invented a bogus retainer agreement with Mr. Cohen to justify them.
Mr. Cohen, who broke with Mr. Trump in 2018 and later testified before Congress as well as the grand jury that indicted Mr. Trump, has said that the former president knew about the phony legal expenses and retainer agreement.
In New York, it can be a crime to falsify business records, and Mr. Bragg’s office is likely to build the case around that charge, according to people with knowledge of the matter and outside legal experts.
But to charge falsifying business records as a felony, rather than a misdemeanor, Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors must show that Mr. Trump’s “intent to defraud” included an effort to commit or conceal a second crime.
That second crime could be a violation of election law. Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors might argue that the payment to Ms. Daniels represented an illicit contribution to Mr. Trump’s campaign: The money silenced Ms. Daniels, aiding his candidacy at a crucial time.

=====
Personally, in my opinion, if the above is accurate, it still seems like a stretch to move this up from a misdemeanor to a felony.  It reminds me of the way law enforcement goes after known gangsters.   
The article continues:
======

If Mr. Trump were ultimately convicted, he would face a maximum sentence of four years, though prison time would not be mandatory.

Yet a conviction is not a sure thing, and Mr. Bragg’s case might apply a legal theory that has yet to be evaluated by judges. A New York Times review of relevant cases and interviews with election law experts strongly suggest that New York State prosecutors have never before filed an election law case involving a federal campaign.

Cohen's payments were his monthly retainer, there's no paperwork that shows it was reimbursement for anything. There's also quite the smoking gun in that the alleged recipient of this hush payment swore in a written and verbal statement that there was no affair to cover up and the only person who claims there was is a discredited and disbarred attorney who both lied to and cheated Daniels. This case is something only a partisan or a moron could accept as legitimate, so we understand why there's celebration in the streets today.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato