(07-21-2023, 10:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(07-20-2023, 05:29 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: You intentionally made a ridiculous analogy to make me look stupid, but really belies the fact that you aren't arguing in good faith. Typical reductio ad absurdum argument that doesn't even try to address the points. That's on you, not me. You're intelligent, but dogmatic. You literally have to preclude all of the things we know to make my position asinine. So, let's entertain your terrible analogy....

Is the government known to have the capability to control mosquitos? Is there an expressed purpose for using that capability? Are there any indications that differentiates one mosquito from another? I mean, I could keep going, but it's pointless. If the answer to all those are no, then why do you think I would believe that? Because you think I'm stupid? If the answer to all of those is yes, then it's certainly a probability, and only a blind zealot wouldn't acknowledge it.

The point here is not to say that the government could use mosquitoes in a top-secret way. Rather, it's to point out that you need to use the context around you to determine what is beyond the pale from what is plausible.

We know our government uses plain clothes agents and informants. We have sworn court testimony they did you plain clothes agents. We know that Epps was on the most wanted list. We know that people were arrested, charged, prosecuted and convicted for much less serious crimes. Yet, Epps avoided all of that. Why?

I have never said we KNOW he's an agent. Only there is enough evidence for it to be probable. And, with that in mind, agent or not, why are people on the left not outraged he isn't behind bars? That's the only question I'm asking of YOU. Why shouldn't he be prosecuted? Because a news article told you so? You and I should be asking the same questions.

I apologize for the ridiculous analogy. I was rushing off and didn't have the time or energy to cull through your last post. 

Nonetheless dialogue is akin to how I feel when I tell the kids "sometimes life isn't fair." 
Sometimes you have to just accept a truth that isn't what you'd prefer it to be. 

If you are going to adopt a paranoia about federal plots and schemes and imply alternate motivations behind everything that you don't like - then what is the point here?  You are unwilling too accept reality without an attempt to explain it away with unfounded theories. 

You are unwilling to take facts at face value. You are unwilling to accept that bad people did bad things in the name of Donald Trump because he lied to them about election results. 

It is so simple. People got really angry and worked up because they believed they had been cheated by the American electoral process when the reality is - their guy just simply lost the election. 

There need be no conspiracy.
There need be no Antifa and federal plants. 
There need be no psyops. 
There is no need for me to entertain your assumptions about Epps. 

Americans were lied to and made to believe their votes had not been counted in good faith. 
So they reacted and did some stupid [BLEEP].  
The end.

I don't care to argue the election in this thread. Or at least not until we finish what we are discussing. 

The main takeaway (which is where I stand on election fraud, too), is that we get too distracted arguing the what ifs, when there are ideals or questions we would agree on otherwise. My point with Epps is not that HE'S AN AGENT OMG. It's that he should be in jail by the standards that have been established. You and the moderates should watch that video, see incitement and also want him in jail. I get mad when we all agree on a principle, but never collectively push for that principle because we are too busy arguing about speculation. If we both agreed he should be in jail, and put pressure on the government to put him there, then you take away both the possibility of conspiracy and/or corruption.

I don't trust the government. 15 years ago, all of my liberal friends felt the same way. Now, it's reversed, but nothing's changed. I've just gotten older and wiser, and they've just seen their party get power. I think it's foolish to trust what these people say without proper checks and balances, transparency, and accountability. It's just not present in our government. Just like I think we should all agree that Epps should be in jail, I think we should all agree that we want open and transparent elections. For the last 20 years, there has been a dispute after every major election. Something is broken, but instead of trying to clean it up and us, as the collective, pushing for our government to get their act together, we justify it when our side wins and get pissed off about it when they lose. It's a terrible, vicious cycle.

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