(08-30-2023, 09:31 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(08-30-2023, 08:37 PM)Sneakers Wrote: Pence will testify to the how and why of what took place.  A jury will decide if that how and why rose to the level of coercion and if other evidence "lays bare" any criminal plan. 

There is a significant difference between pretending certain actions were legal and saying they have not yet been proven to be illegal.

Yeah, yeah I get it. 
I understand how the legal system works. 

I'm also a human with enough life experience to have seen the legal system operate for a long time.
Folks with this kind of clear evidence against them don't weasel out of it most the time. 
But they aren't usually former presidents either. 

If you guys want to continually harp on the innocent until proven guilty song and dance - go right ahead. 
Personally, I don't have the slightest issue with stating that a cursory perusal of the evidence already known to the general public in these cases makes this clown look guilty as all hell.  And it isn't going to help that most of these cases (records case in FL, federal fraud case, and the NY hush money bit) are also going to feature at least one person inside Trump's circle of trust or communication flipping on him and testifying with likely damaging information. 

You can pretend that the evidence mounting against him isn't already damning if you want to. I'm not.

We're in uncharted territory in so many ways.  The trial of someone under SS protection, especially at the ex-President level, is unprecedented.  As this develops, I'm expecting a flurry of motions over venue, appearance, etc.


This is the critical point I've been emphasizing, much of the "proof" you believe exists is not yet of record.  These individuals represent potential evidence that could flip the decision either way.  Public statements and emails cannot be retracted, but I don't believe he will be convicted on the strength of those alone.  Testimony of private conversations is what may or may not establish criminal intent.

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