(09-27-2024, 02:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote:

(09-27-2024, 02:27 PM)mikesez Wrote: JD Vance went out there and said he supports letting Russia keep the land they're occupying and making Ukraine promise to stay out of the EU and NATO. 
That's everything Russia wants.  The only concession he suggests for Russia is that a small sliver of the occupied territory becomes a DMZ.
For their part, Harris and Biden have always insisted that Ukraine must get all of its 2014 territory back, including Crimea, and be allowed to join the EU if they want.  NATO isn't on the table because you can't have a NATO country leasing out its land for Russia's largest navy base.  This is also a preposterous position.
Unless the Russian army has mass desertions or a revolution, Russia is going to be able to hold the territory they've gained. Ukraine trying to get it back is only going to prolong matters. The Biden-Harris goal is dangerous.  So I agree more with Vance and Putin on that point.  However, with Crimea gone, and with a defensible border established, Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO.
Russia's aggression must be punished and expanding NATO is the perfect punishment.

The whole reason Putin continues to push back though is because of NATO. Because of the continued western expansion into the eastern territories. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to be in. 

I don't see him going for that. I think Russia should be made to give Ukraine Crimea back and they should have Ukraine join the EU. The concession from that point forward should be our gracious efforts in not kicking their teeth in to begin with and not pushing further NATO involvement for Ukraine. 

Russia's punishment will be received in due time. Once a regime comes along here and decides to [BLEEP] something up in Africa that they've been working on for a few years relationship wise and funding wise. Just like the pipeline incident that we had nothing to do with.

I think before we leave this Earth, probably right after Putin dies, Kaliningrad will be independent of the rest of Russia. That's another punishment. 

With Sweden and Finland now in NATO, Kaliningrad becomes totally isolated from Russia the minute any conflict between NATO and Russia starts. It is no longer useful to them and they will abandon it eventually. 

This is why they are trying so hard to weaken NATO and get the US to reduce its level of commitment to NATO.  Putin believes he has a better chance of getting the US to leave NATO than he does getting NATO to leave Sweden and Finland.  We should be insulted that he thinks so little of us.

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