(Yesterday, 07:03 AM)Sneakers Wrote:

(04-29-2025, 10:07 AM)mikesez Wrote: 1. We agree on terms.  I don't believe anyone is being imprisoned in the US without a trial currently. However it seems we sent 200 to 300 people to El Salvador, without giving them a trial here, and it seems they won't get a trial there.  I ask you for the second time, please answer directly the direct question, should we, without having any trial under our law, send people to countries that will imprison them without trials under their law? Is there a group of people who somehow deserve to be in prisoned without ever having trials?

2. We don't know If Albrego Garcia turned himself in or not at any point. We do know that he appeared in front of judges multiple times, and those judges said that he should not be returned to El Salvador, because his life was in danger there. In fact, Trump administration officials themselves initially admitted that they did not mean to send him back, that they were unaware of these previous rulings. How do you square that with their current claim that they did the right thing? 

3. This philosophical conversation, like any other, would be pretty useless if we did not try to apply it to current salient cases. 

4. There is such a thing as international law, some of which has been ratified by the US Senate in the form of treaties over the centuries. When a treaty is ratified by the United States Senate, it becomes law in the United States, this is in the Constitution. This includes the ideas of political asylum that we are discussing.

---

(04-30-2025, 10:26 PM)mikesez Wrote: An illegal immigrant deserves a hearing not a trial. Trials are for people who are going to be sentenced to prison.  Hearings are for people who are in less serious trouble.

If an illegal immigrant is arrested, we need to have a hearing to double-check their identity, that they don't have the proper visa, that they don't qualify for asylum, then we deport them.  Just a hearing.  Not a trial.  If we didn't have a hearing, we might have the wrong guy and not realize it.  Once we're sure we have the right person, we send them back to their country, to live as a free person there.

But if that country is going to imprison them, without any trial, we shouldn't send them there.  Albrego Garcia wasn't tried here, and he wasn't tried in El Salvador, yet he is in a prison in El Salvador.

Any country that imprisons its own citizens without trial is another North Korea or Cuba.  Don't let the lack of Marxist propaganda confuse you.  Lawlessness is lawlessness.  Dictators are dictators.

Yet again, goalposts on the move.  Your previous post specified "trial" five times, but now you want "hearings" instead.  How do you envision those hearings proceeding after apprehension?  Will they be evidentiary?  Will there be an appeals process?  Will the defendants be provided legal counsel?  If they don't even claim to be here legally, do we still need a hearing?

Why should the judicial system of another country become our problem, simply because a fugitive from that country entered the U.S. illegally?  For the nth time, Garcia did NOT come here seeking asylum, nor is he exactly the poster child for such an argument.  You Liberals pick the strangest hills to live and die on.

You moved the goalposts, socky.
First we were talking about imprisoning people.  That should require a trial.
Then you changed the subject to merely deporting people.  That requires a hearing. 
If a person admits in their hearing that they are here illegally, that's a very short hearing, but it's still a hearing. We still have to tell them where we are going to send them, and give them an opportunity to plead to be sent to another place if they wish.

---

(Yesterday, 09:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:

(04-30-2025, 01:55 PM)mikesez Wrote: There it is.
You say the people who apply the law are activists who must be ignored, which, in effect, places the President and Congress above the law.

Trump appointed many of these folks himself! But they're wrong.  Only Trump is right.

I don't really care what Trump thinks either, I only care about what I think. Frankly I don't really give much thought to what other people think, especially folk like you who go out of their way to be dull and argumentative. You could at least try to be entertaining, you at least used to be able to pull that off. Now you're just...boring.

There aren't enough people here anymore to go for laughs.

---