Quote:What?? Al Qaeda in Iraq was a thing for as long as I can remember?


I'm sorry, but I see this very differently. And I think I have history to back me up.


First, the occupation of the middle east by America did more to incite unrest than any speech president Obama gave. If you honestly believe that one of Obama's speeches caused the Arab spring or whatever, please provide your source for us to review. From my understanding, revolutions usually occur because of economic crises, authoritarian turmoil, or religious zealotry - not from a speech a foreign official gives. But if I'm wrong, please provide a link for us to review.


Second, while I'll agree that Obama did the Syria and Iraq no favors, I think the original sin (the invasion we were lied into) is by far the biggest fault and shame that hangs on the USA. If we never occupied Iraq this never would have happened, for crying out loud!!!!


So I find it odd that your disdain for Obama borders on the fanatical, while you have yet to acknowledge the fact that it was Bush that created this entire quagmire.


If you cannot at least admit that, then you're truly not being an honest broker in this conversation.


I'm honest enough to concede the point Stroud made earlier today because I want honest conversations. And I think there are really good posters here that also want the same. How bout you, FBT? Can you concede that the original sin falls on the Bush administration?

 

Yes, democrats disputed the notion that al Qaeda was operating inside Iraq after Bush made assertions that there was a link there.  That was proven to be true.  al Qaeda in Iraq was indeed a real thing.  This link was considered part of the justification for the Iraq war, along with repeated violations of UN sanctions that warranted military intervention.

 

 

I know the liberals like to talk about the WMDs in Iraq.  It's odd to me that, despite finding plenty of weapons, there was never any really broadly dispersed reports about the findings.  I read an article a while back that said the Bush administration kept a lid on revealing what was found despite the fact that it was not the politically expedient thing to do.  I don't know if that's factual or not, but I do know that when the weapons caches were discovered, they barely registered on the media radar.  The NY Times DID report on it, but they tried to be as dismissive as possible. 

 

I read an article a year or so ago, and I went out and tracked it down.  It was a panel interviewed by the notorious conservative website, Politico.  They were asked about Iraq, and how lost it, Bush, or Obama.  They talked about the explosion of ISIS in the country after the troop withdrawal, and while the article itself came away with an inconclusive who to blame, if you read the comments by people who have been involved with diplomatic relations in Iraq, and who have a vast knowledge of what transpired there after the withdrawal, they pretty much put the blame for ISIS at the feet of Obama, although they say it was mostly because of fatigue and a lack of attention in the region, and not so much about policy.  Obama wanted to pivot to Asia, and lost focus, and the end result was a complete implosion.  The panel almost unanimously agreed that Iraq was in a good place when Obama took office in 2009.  Feel free to read the article yourself, and you'll see that experts with far more knowledge on the subject told a conservative news outlet like Politico that they think Obama is to blame for ISIS' explosion in growth in Iraq and Syria.  

 

I never said any speech by Obama sparked the Arab Spring, although with his ego, he would probably LOVE to think that were true.  Feel free to show a quote where I did anything of the sort.  All I was pointing out is that Obama went on an apology tour in the region and signaled the fact that the United States was eagerly looking to lead from behind.  The Arab Spring started in Tunisia when a guy dumped gasoline on, and set himself on fire to protest the government there.  The fact that he was willing to do that to himself sparked a movement that swept throughout the region, and culminated in the Muslim Brotherhood taking control in Egypt.  Obama certainly encouraged the Arab Spring, but he didn't inspire it.

 

As far as being "Lied into Iraq", I don't think that was necessarily the case.  Yes, there was some bad intelligence when it came to the whole yellow cake thing, but the primary indicator for military intervention in Iraq was based on 16 UN resolutions dating back to 1990 requiring Iraq to provide unfettered access for inspectors to all weapons development facilities.  Hussein started blocking inspectors from entering the country as some sort of diplomatic negotiation to gain concessions from the UN and UN nation states.  He pushed the UN repeatedly knowing that these sanctions included authorization for member states to intervene militarily.  Eventually, his refusal to cooperate was bound to have consequences, and the Bush administration made the case to go in.  We know now that there was bad intelligence involved, but I tend to think that this wasn't intentionally done.  It was way too high profile for that to be the case.  The very fact that Hussein refused to let UN inspectors do their jobs in Iraq was justification enough.  While I was never a fan of the Iraq war because we were still fully engaged in taking on al Qaeda in Afghanistan, I understood the logic behind it as we had been lead to believe.  It's easy to say it was a bad move today, but at the time, even your beloved princess voted for the war.  She's spinning her lies about that vote now, but the vote was still counted. 

 

The US entering Iraq didn't create ISIS.  We had stabilized the country and had it on the right track when Obama took over.  Read the article above and you'll see my point.  You naturally won't agree with it, but that's to be expected.  You're too ingrained in your ideology and the narrative you've got tattooed on the brain saying Bush is to blame for every ill in the world.  He definitely made a bunch of mistakes as president.  I'll concede that much.  But, there was legitimate purpose for going into Iraq whether you agree or not.

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